short starters

[jrdavis]

How many of you guys an gals use a short starter? my question comes from reading that they weren't used until Walter Cline suggested it in his book, "The Muzzleloading Rifle,then and now" when the NMLRA was just getting started

 

[TwoShadows]

Probably not used in hunting or war, but I betcha it were used by the serious target shooters since old Tooter was a pup. I use one on every shot with my rifles....tight ball / patch combo's necessitate it...my powder measure is a part of one end of the handle made of antler. Also have a brass jag tip on it....my patch worm works great on it to open the traditional Port and Madiera bottles too!
I doubt the fashion/period correct police would approve my using one, I may lay awake tonight and worry about it......not!

 

[Huntinfool]

Ditto TwoShadows,
You said, "Also have a brass jag tip on it....my patch worm works great on it to open the traditional Port and Madiera bottles too!
I doubt the fashion/period correct police would approve my using one, I may lay awake tonight and worry about it......not!"

My thoughts exactly, LOL
Keep Yer Powder Dry
Chuck

 

The "Short Starter" has been a fairly recent addition to the Muzzleloader's accutremants. Most Long hunters and Pioneers rifles of that time had what was called a "coned" barrel. In last month's issue of Muzzle Blasts they had a great article about this very thing. Coning a barrel basicaly is just taking a tapered reamer and boring out the last 6 inches or so. That way the ram rod could be used to seat the ball and did not need a short starter.

Hope This Helps,
Chris

 

[Darkhorse]

I personally think the short starter has been in use since Americans first started using patches with roundballs. Seeing as there were few micrometers and dial calipers lying around then it would have been easy to mismatch a patch and ball, and to get that thing on down the barrel the natural tool would have been a short stick and hammer, or rock. And I also think our forefathers were clever enough to see the benefit of having such a tool close at hand, at all times. Even if they were using a loose P$B combo and a coned barrel, things still happen.
Just because none of the "Wooden" (think rot and time) short starters have survived or been regularly documented, doesn't at all mean they were not used.
Remember, a lot of critical stuff was forgotten during early centerfire years concerning ML guns. Only in a few areas were these weapons still in regular use, and those users were often illiterate.
The study of this stuff is a lot like archeology. A lot of guesses and supposes. And in a few years they rewrite the history books again because they have learned they were wrong about something.

 

[musketman]

Darkhorse stated: "I personally think the short starter has been in use since Americans first started using patches with roundballs."


He's right...

Rifle Ball Starter and Powder Measure: Revolutionary War era...

A wood starter was used to seat the patched round ball evenly into the muzzle of the rifle. Then the riflemen used his ramrod to push the ball down the barrel prior to firing. This starter includes an attached powder measure.
Horn, rawhide, wood. L 10.1 cm
The George C. Neumann Collection, Valley Forge National Historical Park, VAFO 1311

 

[Deadeye]

I'm with you Darkhorse. To think that people used muzzleloaders for hundreds of yrs. and never thought of using a short starter is :bull:. I don't want a coned muzzle on my guns. I'm happy with the way my guns shoot
using a short starter. :winking:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm guessing that the smaller, 'modern' calibers below .45 made the short starters necessary. That, and the trend towards tighter patching in the Pennsylvania rifles. A person can't grip the thinner ramrods tightly enough without the risk of snapping it off at the muzzle.

I've worked my needs down to little one-piece stub-starters of 1" or 1-1/2" exposed 'dowel' wittled out of 1 x 1 x 2" blocks that I tie off to the loading block. Just enough to bury the ball completely below the muzzle.

 

[jrdavis]

I've read that the Jaeger Rifle did use a short starter, but when the long hunter was comming back and tell the local gunsmith what he needed I thing they started coning the barrels and using smaller balls that could be started on the run with out the aid of the short starter...I don't think the Indians would have waited around such non sense.

 

Hi Guy's,
I made a mistake about the Muzzle Blasts issue. It wasn't Muzzle Blasts but it was Muzzleloader Magazine instead. It was a great article. There are a lot of pros and cons about short starters. Musketman had some great representations, with them being made out of wood we may not know how widely they were used.

 

[Huntinfool]

Jr Davis said, "I've read that the Jaeger Rifle did use a short starter, but when the long hunter was comming back and tell the local gunsmith what he needed I thing they started coning the barrels and using smaller balls that could be started on the run with out the aid of the short starter...I don't think the Indians would have waited around such non sense."

This could be true also many historians believe that longhunter greats such as Simon Kenton and Lewis Wetzil didn't even bother with patching when danger was nipping at their heels. Simon supposedly shot 12 Injuns that were chasing him one day loading on the run!

Maybe instead of smaller balls my mentor thinks they, may have carried some larger balls to grip the rifleing lightly so they could load faster without a patch. For just such an occasion.

I don't know how good that would work but an oldtimer in my ML club said he tried shooting an unpatched ball once or twice to see how it worked. He loaded some extra powder he said he would not want to be shot at under 10 yards or so. Beyond that he said it wouldn't penetrate much! I'm sure it was kind of like shooting a large Roman candle!

I figure if they were chasing him they probably were at point blank range when he done em in!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Keep Yer Powder Dry Fellers
"The Chuckster" ::

 

[Ohio Joe]

I believe ball starters have been with us for a very long time... "musketman's" post clearly shows this. I have seen many style of ball starters, "short starter", and the ones that stick in my mind are the ones that double as a powder measurer from a deer antler, the pointed tine being dulled and taken down to be used in starting the patched round ball, then the rammer bought in to seat the ball on the charge... It's possible if not probable that the ball was a bit more under'sized for a certain caliber then what they are today... I also believe that, Simon Kenton could very well have shot 12 indians in a running battle without patching simply on the merits that the rifling in his barrel may have been shallow, and at least shallow enough that after the first one or two shots the fouling would increase preasure, enough so to act as a "fouling patch"... This is what I think?