Shortening a barrel

[Dphar1950]

I have an old (1845) 35 cal 1/2 stock rifle with a 39" barrel. the last 4 or so inches from the muzzle are badly pitted with rust, but the rest of the bore looks pretty good using my bore scope. I would like to cut the barrel down to about 32". I would thumb lap the new muzzle end, and cut a new dovetail for the front sight. Is there any thing else I should be aware of , or do, to make this modification?

Have it recut to 38 caliber.
Hacking up and old rifle in this day and age is silly.
Dan

 

[Dphar1950]

I have an old (1845) 35 cal 1/2 stock rifle with a 39" barrel. the last 4 or so inches from the muzzle are badly pitted with rust, but the rest of the bore looks pretty good using my bore scope. I would like to cut the barrel down to about 32". I would thumb lap the new muzzle end, and cut a new dovetail for the front sight. Is there any thing else I should be aware of , or do, to make this modification?

Try
High Plains Reboring
243 14th Ave NW
Turtle Lake, ND 58575-9410


Dan

 

[user 34300]

As promised, here are a few pictures of the gun. I am not a good photographer, so I hope this will do.

That rifle is in really nice shape. Please to not cut the barrel.

I have used Bobby Hoyt's services and can not recommend him enough. For the cost of a nice meal out with the wife, he will rebore and rerifle it to you specifications. Like I said before he could probably use a period correct rifling configuration. He turns them around very quickly.

 

[Bad Karma]

I wonder if the Skinner Peep is an original?

 

[poker]

Very nice looking rifle, but hasn’t its antique value already been altered? It appears to me to have been heavily cleaned, brass polished, with the wood also refinished, and if I were looking at a glance I’d sure think its a reproduction.

 

[Grimord]

The rifle was hung over a fireplace for over 50 years. When it was given to me it was almost black. I cleaned up the woodwork with Murphys Oil soap, and wiped the outside of the barrel with a rag soaked in kerosene. I did polish up the brass trigger guard and patch box. The peep site that Woodenbow mentioned is one I made and installed in the threaded hole in the tang. I think the gun once had some sort of tang peep site, but it is long gone. Lastly, I gave the entire gun a coat of Renaissance wax. As far as I know, every thing is as it was, just cleaned up. I have shot the gun a few times, but starting a ball is difficult due to the heavy pitting at the muzzle. As the gun is a 35 caliber, I think I will ask Bobby Hoyt to bore it out to .36 with a radius grooved rifiling. I want to use this old rifle as it was ment to be used. I still have to figure out the trigger. It is a single phase, double set trigger, but once the trigger is set there is no way to let the hammer down if a shot is not taken. I have tried catching the hammer before it falls, and have been successful a few times, but it is sheer luck when I can catch the hammer before it hits the nipple. I have resorted to removing the cap, and dropping the hammer on a piece of inner tube to cushion the nipple. Not the best solution, but at least it works.

 

[Treestalker]

Let Mr. Hoyt re-bore it to what he thinks is best, and then cone it to remove the problem in the last 4 inches at the muzzle. It will the be all it can be, and much easier to load, historically correct and you'll love it, I bet.

 

[Dphar1950]

Let Mr. Hoyt re-bore it to what he thinks is best, and then cone it to remove the problem in the last 4 inches at the muzzle. It will the be all it can be, and much easier to load, historically correct and you'll love it, I bet.

Good advice.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Nice rifle and well cared for. Being heavy as described I still believe shortening and reboring would be OK. Improvement, in fact. Since it is a half stock no configuration would be affected by shortening. I'm still of the opin that is the way to go.

 

[Dphar1950]

Nice rifle and well cared for. Being heavy as described I still believe shortening and reboring would be OK. Improvement, in fact. Since it is a half stock no configuration would be affected by shortening. I'm still of the opin that is the way to go.

Butchering antiques was done enough in the early 20c we don't need to continue the practice. So many original flintlocks converted to percussion in their original service live and they reconverted to flint. Often poorly distorts the history.

 

[Dphar1950]

Let Mr. Hoyt re-bore it to what he thinks is best, and then cone it to remove the problem in the last 4 inches at the muzzle. It will the be all it can be, and much easier to load, historically correct and you'll love it, I bet.

I would still ask if he could fresh it leaving the same rifling form and twist. If its not pitted too far for this to be a fix. If so see if he can rebore and rifle with the same land groove ration etc.
Coning is a REALLY bad idea. The modern "cone" people are using does not match that of the original described by TK Dawson in John Baird's "Hawken Rifles, the Mountain Man's Choice".

 

[Feltwad]

So many original flintlocks converted to percussion in their original service live and they reconverted to flint. Often poorly distorts the history.

Reconverting back to flint for a very few was to own and shoot a flintlock but for the large majority it was for one thing only {PERSONAIL GAIN} it destroyed its heritage and never looked right.
Feltwad

 

[hawkeye2]

That's a very attractive rifle and in great shape too. I wouldn't do a thing to change it's aesthetics. Hoyt can do wonders and reboring or lining a barrel has little effect on the gun's value. A length of vacuum hose over the nipple works well to cushion the hammer.

 

[user 34300]

Glad to hear you are on board with using Mr. Hoyt's services. I also agree with letting him do his thing. I would suggest a caliber that can use a common ball diameter. That may be 36 or 40 cal. He may need to go 40 to get into clean material. Let him decide.

I would not cone it. It will not help accuracy, probably hurt it. It will not make loading significantly easier with a tight combo necessary for best accuracy. A well done smooth crown is easy enough to load and shoots better, on average. I get he sense that coning advocates are less accuracy obsessed and more into seeing how many shots they can get between cleaning. I am not disparaging anyone, there are just different perspectives out there. Opinions differ on this one, you just got mine.

Just lapping the heck out of it may not come out a common size. Hoyt will not likely spend hours and hours lapping your barrel. Freshing involves casting a lead slug and inserting cutter in the slug. This is hobby stuff. He is running a business and and must do it his normal way to make money.

For what it is worth I have had bad luck with round bottom rifling. I have demanding accuracy standards. I bought one round bottom barrel to see for myself. It sucked. I replaced it and it now resides in the scrap steel pile. I believe the grooves were too deep to make a gas seal with any loadable patch and ball combo. Thus it shot very poorly, about 5" at 50 yards. There is no reason a good barrel shouldn't do under 2" at the same distance.

 

[Grimord]

Glad to hear you are on board with using Mr. Hoyt's services. I also agree with letting him do his thing. I would suggest a caliber that can use a common ball diameter. That may be 36 or 40 cal. He may need to go 40 to get into clean material. Let him decide.

I would not cone it. It will not help accuracy, probably hurt it. It will not make loading significantly easier with a tight combo necessary for best accuracy. A well done smooth crown is easy enough to load and shoots better, on average. I get he sense that coning advocates are less accuracy obsessed and more into seeing how many shots they can get between cleaning. I am not disparaging anyone, there are just different perspectives out there. Opinions differ on this one, you just got mine.

Just lapping the heck out of it may not come out a common size. Hoyt will not likely spend hours and hours lapping your barrel. Freshing involves casting a lead slug and inserting cutter in the slug. This is hobby stuff. He is running a business and and must do it his normal way to make money.

For what it is worth I have had bad luck with round bottom rifling. I have demanding accuracy standards. I bought one round bottom barrel to see for myself. It sucked. I replaced it and it now resides in the scrap steel pile. I believe the grooves were too deep to make a gas seal with any loadable patch and ball combo. Thus it shot very poorly, about 5" at 50 yards. There is no reason a good barrel shouldn't do under 2" at the same distance.

I have had Hoyt do two barrels for me already, and his work is top notch. If I send the barrel to him, I would ask him to see if it can be made a .36 by re-boring, or if not, to make it a .36 by the use of a liner. In my state (CT) the largest caliber muzzle loader that can be used when hunting on state land is .36 with patched round ball only. This gun was ment to be hunted with as my fore fathers did. I want to carry on the tradition.
As for your comments regarding radius grooved barrels, my experience has been different from yours. I have 3 radius grooved barreled guns, and all of them shoot tight groups from the bench. I only wish I could shoot those same groups off hand.

 

[springfield art]

I use a gunsmith who is very familiar with black powder guns; he's shortened several muzzleloaders for me, and some shotguns, but all repros. I don't care for the long barrels either, except for re-enacting muskets, etc.

 

[fossilledges]

This is an interesting thread, it makes me think of all the Springfield and Enfield barrels which were shortened or made into smoothbores. --Dr. Paul

 

[M. De Land]

I disagree with those who discourage shortening the barrel because antique value might be lessened. Owners of firearms modified to suit their needs. Shortening would only be one part in the life of that rifle. Unless it is something really special, I say suit yerself. However boring out to a large caliber seems a more practical approach to me.

Yes, freshing out a bore larger to clean steel in both land and groove was historically correct and common.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Reboring was common in the day. Boring it out a couple of thousandths will at least preserve the outward aesthetics and most of the history. Good for you for bringing it back from the abyss as far as you have.