Shot vs. ball impact

[Stophel]

I am finishing up a smoothbore gun with no rear sight. Something personally I am NOT used to. With a ball, and sighting straight down the top of the barrel (meaning I can't actually see the top of the barrel..only the top at the breech and at the muzzle), and putting my muzzle directly under my desired impact point, it is shooting several inches low at about 30 yards (the gun, by the way, is .62. I was shooting with 75 grains). I have not shot this with shot yet (at the moment, I have no wads. Tow works, but does not produce anything that could actually be considered a "pattern"). The last one I did shot similarly...low for ball, higher for shot, though I did have a rear sight on it. Is this the typical behavior to expect before I go messing around with sighting too much?

Other than learning to hold and sight down the barrel differently, I don't see any way to bring the impact point up (since there is no rear sight to raise, and the front sight is actually in the way of seeing the target as it is...filing it down won't help). Bending kinda frightens me.

I'm much more used to smoothbores with sights...and I don't shoot shot.

 

[OTHERN]

The 3 ways that I am familiar with for bringing the point of impact up are 1. use a different hold on the stock, IE hold head higher on stock and see more barrel. 2. Bend the barrel. 3. build up the stock with a leather cheek pad, so you can use the same head placement that you are used to, yet you will see more barrel. There are probably others. My trade gun shoots low for me with my normal hold also. I could never get consistant with using a different hold on the stock. I made a leather cheek pad with inserts under it and adjusted the heighth until with my normal hold it hit where I aimed. I could maintain my consistancy this way.

Othern

 

[Mike Brooks]

Your problem is common .Bend the barrel Chris. A man of your experience should have no problem with this. :v
I've bent a lot of barrels in my time and never ruined a one.

 

[No Deer]

You could also try to adjust your powder charge. A bigger powder load may raise your point of impact.

 

[Stophel]

Looking at past archives on the bulletin boards shows me that my problem is common indeed. Always low....no one ever says their gun shoots high...

I have directions put on the web by Tim Hamblen for bending a barrel carefully by supporting the two ends and using a clamp to skwuz the middle of the barrel a bit at a time. [url] http://marina.fortunecity.com/seaview/283/mypage4.html[/url] I may give this a shot.

experience... :shocked2:

 

[Mike Brooks]

OOOHHHHHH...High tech sort of guy are you? :hmm: I use the crotch of a tree. This ain't rocket science, you're just bending a gun barrel. :rotf:
Call me if you want a walk thru on this.
563 386 8006 evenings or 563 388 5210 days. :v
I've watched an old time smooth bore shooter and gun maker whack his barrel against a telephone pole....that works too, but I consider that method strictly for cave men :winking:

 

[Flintandsteel]

Chris,

I've done it a couple of times myself. I bent a 44" 20ga oct/round barrel that was doing exactly what you explained.
It was my first time, (to bend a barrel), I followed Tim's instructions and it went well.
Mike is a wildman. I just don't think I could use that baby for a prybar.
Mike, ..... I know, it's the same thing. I'm still bending the barrel. It's a psychological.
It's our high tech upbringing. :blah:

 

[squirejohn]

I had thought about bending the barrel on a .62c SB that was shooting low. This SB has a relatively thin walled barrel (I think it may have come from Mold and Gun Shop) and left in the white. Just to see exactely where it would shoot by sighting down the barrel I found the refraction, mirage, whatever was so great that I gave up on this idea. So after much experimentation I finally figured out how to shoot it - ie show consistent amount of barrel.
If you shoot much in cold weather this may be something you may want to consider before bending the barrel.

 

[JackAubrey]

Dear friend,before you resort to bending a barrel,a ghastly proposition, allow me to submit your eye IS the rear sight.Sights allow one to place ones' eye in the same place each time.Consistancy is the mother of accuracy.Since your eye is the rear sight, it will behoove you to insure it is, relatively speaking,in the same position after each shot.I have a brown bess w/ the bayonet lug up top.I placed my eye where the stock was most comfortable and marked where the corner of my mouth touched the stock.I then drilled a very tiny hole,worked a minute amount of gorilla glue into said hole, then tapped in a brass tack.Bringing bess to shoulder I feel for the brass tack touching the corner of my mouth and I have my anchour point.While you may not have a front referance point it is an easy fix if you are so inclined.Just something to consider,mate,before you have at putting a curve in your barrel.Best regards,J.A.

 

[Mike Brooks]

When the barrel is bent properly you see no barrel and get less mirage. All you see is the top of the breech and the front sight, nothing in between.
You'll never shoot your fowler to it's full potential by trying to see consistant amounts of barrell every time you take a shot, no matter how many tacks you drive in your stock as reference. All of the top smoothbore shooters at the nationals bend their barrels to get the correct point of impact. This is a common practice fellows. If you want to conistantly hit things with your smoothbore you have to have stationary points to use as sights. The top of the breech and the front sight are those points. Some folks even file a notch at the top of the breech to use as a centering aid and a rear sight of sorts. ( Never worked for me, I can't see anything that close up)
I had my fist smoothbore barrel bent AT the nationals up on the primitive range in about 1982. Some nice fellow got tired of me trying to figure out how to hit anything when my gun was shooting 10" low at 50 yards and bent my barrel for me. Needless to say I was a bit nervous about the whole ordeal. It looked somewhat like a ski slope when it was where it needed to be, but shot exactly where I aimed it. Wonder of wonders, I started to hit stuff consistantly there after. Even won the flint feather duster in 1986 with a 12 out of 12 score. I never could have done that with a gun that shot 10" low. :shake:

 

[Deadeye]

Mike is right "it ain't no big thang". Many use the crotch of a tree or whatever they have handy.
I have a big vise in my shop that's perfect for the job. Trapshooters bend or have them bent all the time to make their shotguns shoot where they are looking.

 

[Runner]

I bent mine with two wood clamps and two pieces of aluminum block as pillars to support it on the edge of my bench. It is just about right with lead shot. It is still low with steel for some reason. I need to go a little farther with mine soon. The amount of flex will vary from barrel to barrel, so go slow. I had a builder tell me he puts one end of the barrel on a piece of 2x4 on the floor and walks up the barrel to bend it. That is how he regulates his guns. I am a little too nervous to try that method.

 

[squirejohn]

"When the barel is bent properly you see no barrel and get less mirage"

I agree it's just that I didn't think the barrel would have had to be bent that much so as to preclude or significantly lessen mirage (maybe it would have) and that's the reason I decided not to do it.

An in-the-white barrel may also contribute to mirage. A couple of years ago I attended a smoothbore seminar in which the principle speaker, who had also been a member of the US International Smoothbore Shooting Team, mentioned that one way (the best?)to reduce mirage is to paint the barrel flat black.

I also agree that most serious competitive SB shooters bend their barrels. They also (line shooters particularly) tend to shoot smaller caliber balls such as .54c.

 

[Stophel]

I have completely warmed up to the bending idea. I figger if everyone else can do it, so can I. :grin:

If I can brag, I built this gun WELL. It handles beautifully. When put to the shoulder, the cheek lays on the stock comb just so, and the eye is sighting perfectly centered down the top of the barrel...top of the breech lines up with the top of the muzzle, with no barrel showing in between. I don't want to change that...shouldn't have to. :winking:

(actually, I debated in my head whether or not a front sight should even be put on it, it points so well. I remember reading from some late 18th century English gentleman's birding book where the author stated that it was a poor gunner indeed who needed a front sight on his gun!)

 

[marcstephen]

This sounds like a really nice gun!!! I can't wait till you post photos for all of us to see!!! I bet the person who is getting this gun is really lucky to have such a talented commited builder like yourself!!!

:thumbsup:

Marc Findlay

 

[Mike Brooks]

(actually, I debated in my head whether or not a front sight should even be put on it, it points so well. I remember reading from some late 18th century English gentleman's birding book where the author stated that it was a poor gunner indeed who needed a front sight on his gun!)

*

That was Col. Hawker. the famous British sporting man.
His actual quote had something to do with only a novice having a front sight on a fowling gun. If you'll look at any of my personal fowling guns that I use for skeet or hunting you'll notice there's no front sight. No novice here by God..... :blah:

 

[pathfinderifh]

No novice here either,but I still can't get behind the idea of bending a barrel that I check for or have to straiten before building the gun. The kisser button on the stock has worked for me for a lot of years. Maybe if I meet up with another grey beard with the experiance someday,I'll have him bend the barrel for me,I won't watch,it would be like watching my dog being neutered :shocked2:,I know it needs to be done,but I couldn't watch or do it!

Pathfinder

 

[CrackStock]

Mike,

This barrel bending is something that I have been considering for a long time.

If we are discussing a fullstock, how does this bending affect the wood of the forestock? Seems like things might not work out too well. On the other hand, the wood might just form up to the barrel and not be a problem. Just percolating on that one.

CS

 

[Mike Brooks]

The bend isn't enough to effect the forestock wood any. It will conform to the bend in the barrel with no problems. Wood bends pretty easy anyway....alot easier than barrels do. :winking:

 

[Stophel]

By the way, Brownell's sells a gizmo for bending shotgun barrels for changing impact. This is STILL S.O.P. It is basically the same thing as our beam/blocks/clamp device, though it is prettier.