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I've purchased a used new englander and I'm ordering a shotgun barrel for it. I've never owned a black powder shotgun. What load would be good for small game and which wad goes where? I've shot and loaded shotguns all my life, but know nothing about black powder shotguns.
 
There are lots of preferences - mine is : powder, over powder card (about 1/8" thick), lubed felt wad (also about 1/8" thick)(some folks like to use 1/2 of a cushion wad which would be about 1/4" thick), shot and over shot card (real thin). You will need to tell us what gauge barrel you are getting before loads can be suggested. Good shooting!
 
That's my drill. A company called "Circle Fly" sells the three wads/cards and I ordered 2,000 of each and that may well be a lifetime supply.

Note that dipping the fiber cushion wad can add a LOT of weight and slow down the velocity big time. I roll mine in a cookie sheet with just-hot-enough-to-be-soft lube or wipe a bit on by finger rather than dipping in melted lube as some do.

Poke a small hole or nip the edge of the over shot card so it doesn't "pop" off the shot from the compressed air below it when you seat it. This can happen seconds after you seat the over-shot card. Before I learned this trick I noticed a couple times of shot falling out my barrel as I carried the gun. "What the . . . ?" It moves forward and tips enough that the shot is loose. That solved it.
 
I have a New Englander with the screw in chokes. I found for some reason it likes 3f better than 2f powder. It does good with either the Imp Cyl. or Full choke tube with 70 grs of powder, 4 thin Circle Fly overshot card wads, 1 1/4 oz of #5 or #6 lead shot, and another overshot card wad.
 
Also, regarding the thin "Over Shot" card...all your cleaning / seating jags parbably have the cup shape on them to conform to a round ball...if so you need to get a 'shotgun' jag...like your seating jag but with a "flat" face.

Otherwise the curvature of your ball seating jag will bend the edges of the OS card down all around it's circumference, effectively making it smaller in diameter so it no longer has a tight fit out against the bore walls and shot will slide out.
 
Rebel said:
I have a New Englander with the screw in chokes. I found for some reason it likes 3f better than 2f powder. It does good with either the Imp Cyl. or Full choke tube with 70 grs of powder, 4 thin Circle Fly overshot card wads, 1 1/4 oz of #5 or #6 lead shot, and another overshot card wad.
Shot loads in both my .54 and .62 pattern better with 3F instead of 2F too...if I can believe some articles I've read, 3F gets the shot charge out of the barrel a little faster than 2F...always good for accuracy
 
Not sure why but it works out that way for me too. Ohh well, makes it easier when buying powder. Only have to buy the one size.
 
Yep, 3f works best for my 12 bore as well. I have good luck with a single 1/8 felt over powder and either another felt wad or a thin paper overshot wad. Vary your powder load up or down depending on how much shot you use. BP shot loads don't like to be overloaded. Try to keep them equal by volume like the old timers did, it is a good rule of thumb.65 to 70 gr.seem to be about right for 1oz loads. My 12 maxes out at 85 to 90gr. to 1 1/4 oz for a turkey load.
 
I have found that if I use stacked overshot cards over the powder that I can back off the powder a little. I just dont like messing with all of them in the field, and my gun still likes 3f even with the better seal of 4 cards over the powder. I never could get a good killing load out of 2f.
 
Rebel said:
Not sure why but it works out that way for me too. Ohh well, makes it easier when buying powder. Only have to buy the one size.
The only thing left that I use Goex 2F for from my original case of 2F are the round ball loads for the .58 & .62cals.
I could rezewro them with 3F but there's not any point in wasting the powder and lead to do that...no more than I shoot them I'll just leave them set up with 2F and my heirs can go through my stuff and say...here's a bunch of old, pretty red & black cans...toss them on the fire too.
:grin:
 
Toss em on the fire....he he. I always tell my neighbors if my house catches fire, run away from it.There is enought ammo and powder in it to make a nice crater.
 
I just use a measure that is first filled to 3/4 to full of powder then add 3 to 4 OS cards now fill the same measure with shot and dump that down and then add one O/S card on top. Then I go shoot some critters. One wad type sure makes it simple. I don,t nicke my cards, I just ram them fast which cause the air to f@£t out :redface:
Oh, :hatsoff: good luck
 
Do you have to pull the choke(s) to load the wads and cards?
 
By using the thin overshot card wads for everything i can load even through the full choke tube in my New Englander without having to pull the choke. Makes it a lot easier.
 
If you use OS cards, that are very thin( think shirt backs) they can be bent enough to fit down through any choke tube. Then use your correct, FLAT jag for pushing them down the barrel. They will right themselves, and lay square with the bore. If you use OP wads, which are 1/8" thick and hard, you can't bend them. Same with the cushion wads, unless you dampen them sufficiently that their weight increases substantially, while they will bend. If you can't beed your wads, you have to remove the screw in choke, or use brute strength to force the wads down past and through the choke area. That is why Jug Choking Remains popular for ML shotguns and fowlers. Jug choking has no affect on the wads going down the barrel, as an expansion chamber is actually cut into the inside of the barrel.

I suggest using the OS cards in a choked barrel, and poke a hole off center with an awl in each card to let the air escape. If you notch the edge of a card, gas will blow by there, defeating the purpose of the card. When you stack the cards in the barrel over the powder, just align the cards so that the holes are not lined up with one another, to seal gases behind all the cards. It does not take much of a hole to let the air come out of the OS cards you put down over the shot, but the hole will protect the integrity of the edges.
 
Rebel,
Colonel Askins said that modern shot loads achieve their velocity in the first four inches of travel and then coast in front of the pressure and become loose enough to respond dramatically to the choke.
2fg powder burns a long time. This is one of the reasons why it is hard to get a black powder load to pattern tight. Even in my old damascus twist Lefever cartridge gonne smokeless gives a better pattern than 2fg black. When the shot load is still gaining velocity at the muzzle the load gets spread some.
Sooo, it could be that the pressure is already falling off with 3fg in a shot loaded smoothbore and allows the shot to exit the muzzle without the extra spread effect that 2fg gives it. Just a thought.
volatpluvia
 
That's really not true. Modern shot cups protect the edge pellets from rubbing against the bore, getting flats, which become huge sails to stop their forward movment, so they drop out of the pattern quickly. BP shotgun loads have trouble because they are not choked, and if they are, they still don't protect the shot from being misshapened in the barrel. Worse, lead is deposited along the barrel from the lead that rubs against it.

FFg powder is a better choice for some large gauge guns because it does burn slower, and does not hit the shot so hard that pellets are " kicked " out of shape, when the gun is fired. That does not seem to be as much a problem with the smaller gauges.( 24,& 28) I suspect that occurs because there are so few pellet on the outer edge in these smaller bores, shooting the normally lighter loads of shot.

In the 19th and earlier centuries, all lead shot was soft. Today, we have shot that has antimony in it( Magnum) and even plated shot, Nickel and Copper, which both resist pellet deformation and the leaving of lead deposits in the bore. But, even these harder LEAD shot examples produce much better patterns out of a cylinder bore gun if they are protected by a thick shotcup, made of plastic, or some other substance. That is why you see so much experimentation being done by members here with various kinds of paper shot cups.

My own experiments with my 12 gauge indicate that the paper cups will produce tighter patterns, and if I play around with the loads some, I may be able to get better than 45%, or low modified patterns out of my cylinder bore gun. This would be a substantial pattern improvement over what is normally delivered. I have not yet tried coin wrappers, or card stock, but they are on my list of things to try. I do know that the secret to better patterns with more shot in them, is to use less powder rather than more. That seems counter intuitive compared to what works well in modern guns, shooting smokeless powder and plastic shot cups and hard shot.

A friend of mine experimented, for instance, with the then new Olympic Trap load, which are 3 1/4 dram Eq. and 24 grams of nickel-plated shot( #7). Those loads are screaming out of his full choke barrel. He was getting, on paper, 98% patterns, and all his shots were delivering patterns in excess of 93%. Those are superb patterns out of any shotgun, and he could break clay targets all day with those rounds. I think they were way to expensive for him to use on dove, so I don't have a report on how that kind of load works on game birds. With that much of the shot staying in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards, the number of pellet hitting the bird had to be almost double what we would normally expect at that range. When you take into account down range pellet energy, those extra pellets hitting a bird are probably more than enough to bring the bird down hard.

Its too bad that BP shotgun ballistics don't work that way.


I do think that if you lubricate your shotgun bore with Bore Butter, or Moose snot, after you seat the OS cards, that the reduction in friction will leave more pellets round, and less lead on the bore to spoil subsequent patterns. It is clear however, that the continued build-up of lead deposits on the bore is a major contributor for increasingly poor patterns out of BP shotguns. When the bores are brushed between shots, and cleaned using lead solvents, patterns become much more consistent. The folks who shoot the chrome plated shotguns are finding that they have less problems with pattern deterrioration, and that the bores are much easier to clean, both between shots, and at the end of the day. BP residue just does not seem to get a good hold on a chromed barrel.

You might all consider some of these ideas during the off season.
 
Paul, if you're speaking of patterns at the standard 40 yard distance and percentage in a 30" circle, then 45% is not even improved cylinder and not nearly modified.
I don't get it. Over the years I guess I've patterned at least two dozen ML barrels and I've never had to resort to any special tricks to get patterns consistent with the degree of choke. I recently finished making a tool to jug choke 12 gauge barrels and did both barrels of a cylinder bore Pedersoli. With 3 1/4 drams of 2f, two hard overpowder 13 gauge cards, 1 1/8 ounce number 6 shot and a home cut Styrofoam over shot card, they patterned 70% and 74% in the 30 inch circle at 40 yards. That is the full choke standard. I've since opened the right barrel a bit for around 60%, which is modified choke standard and I may open it a bit more for a 50%, improve cylinder, which I consider to be the most useful all round game choke.
Some guns may pattern better with 3f but I've never found any need to resort to sub standard powder charges, odd ball wad configurations, shot wrappers nor anything but standard, equal volume loads to get them to perform.
 
You caught a typo I missed. It should have read, " 55%", not "45%".

Me bad, I guess. :cursing: :surrender: :thumbsup:
 
Then you are indeed getting almost modified choke patterns and from a cylinder bored barrel that is an accomplishment, congratulations! :hatsoff:
 

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