Professor flintlock
40 Cal
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2020
- Messages
- 259
- Reaction score
- 125
Try a grease lube. Tallow bees wax. Just get away from liquid lube. But do check your crown.Thank you for your comments and suggestions.
Try a grease lube. Tallow bees wax. Just get away from liquid lube. But do check your crown.Thank you for your comments and suggestions.
This man is clearly a street/graffiti artist based on the colors of his targets and spray paint used to achieve said excellent color.View attachment 163927View attachment 163928green mtn .50 50-100 yrds .020 denim(10oz) patch tallow lube .490 ball swiss 3f 70grns
I agree with your savvy advice,I'm going to show an example of what happens to patches when there is significant gas blow by and when the patches and ball are better matched to the bore. poured from a volume measure of 65 grains. You can see the thin patches are shredded due to gas blow by. The patches that fit best to the bore look fine with no holes.
One of the things that may have some effect on why it takes awhile for GM barrels to wear in is the 1137 steel alloy they use in black powder barrels. It is gun barrel certified and fairly hard with .37 percent carbon.In the attached photo are some of the most recent patches I have shot with my Kibler Colonial Rifle which has a 50 caliber Green Mountain barrel. Here is a little history and then my question.
These patches where shot using 80 grains of my home-made BP which is in the 2F-3F grain size, patch material is denim .022” measured with digital caliper and cut off at the muzzle, lubed with Ballistol/Water 5 to 1 mixture, balls were Hornady .490. These are the best-looking patches I have shot with this rifle in just over 100 rounds fired.
I started using my cast .490 balls and have used some Hornady .490 and .495 balls and have used several different patches .010”, .015” .018” sizes made of drill, ticking and other 100% cotton material. I have used Wonderlube, Bore Butter, Spit, and Ballistol straight and different water/Ballistol mixtures. All of these ball and patch and lube combinations have given me completely shredded and destroyed patches, so much so the patches were not recognizable as patches but just shred pieces of cloth. I have used Goex 2F as well as my home-made BP. I have scrubbed the barrel a total of about 250 in and out times with Maroon Scotchbrite. I have attached a .490 ball to a ball extraction screw tip and pushed it down the bore with a .015” lubed patch and extracted it to see if there was any damage to the patch by rough rifling and while I can see rifling marks on the patch there is no damage to it.
I have been shooting traditional muzzle loading firearms for over 50 years. One Lyman Great Plains Rifle, flintlock, Two T/C Hawken style rifles (percussion), a Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle (percussion), Traditions Hawken Woodsman (percussion) and several BP revolvers (all percussion) and various other rifles and pistols (percussion and flintlock) owned by friends. I have never seen patches destroyed like they have been with this rifle. I have seen some undersized patches that have been burned through, but nothing like this.
I am also quite concerned about accuracy, because I can get no consistent grouping like my other rifles. So, my question is - What do I need to do to fix this? I would appreciate any suggestions to remedy this.
What are the pros to using a dry patch and then conversally what are the cons to a excessively lubed patch. I use well lubed patches what are the issues with thatIn addition to the wisdom here, I would use a patch lube with more oil/beeswax in it. Make sure your patches are 100%cotton.
What are the pros to using a dry patch and then conversally what are the cons to a excessively lubed patch. I use well lubed patches what are the issues with that
Yes, indeed, I found the patch weave must be engraved on the ball from the bottoms of the grooves. Balls are hard to start and a karate slap must be applied to the starter.I'm going to show an example of what happens to patches when there is significant gas blow by and when the patches and ball are better matched to the bore. The rifle was my Harper's Ferry with a Colerain barrel. It has the deep radius grooves. It likes the 0.535" ball wrapped in a dampened 1 part Ballistol to 7 parts water cotton drill patch of 0.018" thickness. The test load was a 0.520 ball and 0.010" patch using the same lubricant. The powder was 3fg GOEX poured from a volume measure of 65 grains. You can see the thin patches are shredded due to gas blow by. The patches that fit best to the bore look fine with no holes.
View attachment 163887
View attachment 163888
Now back to @JGH45's problem. We see the shredded patches and the patches with holes in them. JGH45 has tried various loads and patch combinations inserted into the bore and there is no sign of cutting the patches. But we see holes when the rifle is fired. This appears to be an indication of gas cutting. Now how do we address the gas cutting. We do this by matching the ball and patch to the bore. Step one, Measure the land-to-land dimension of the barrel. Measure the groove-to-groove diameter of the barrel. Now we can determine the groove depth. I like to select a ball that is 0.005" smaller in diameter than the land-to-land dimension. The patch needs to be compressed to slightly thicker than the groove depth + 0.0025. This does not have to be a hard compression of the patch. Sure, you will need a short starter to load the ball and patch. But to address the gas cutting, the lubricated patch has to fill the grooves. Maybe @James Kibler has a suggested load for the 50 caliber barrel used in the Colonial Rifle?
sounds like yall need a barrel coning toolYes, indeed, I found the patch weave must be engraved on the ball from the bottoms of the grooves. Balls are hard to start and a karate slap must be applied to the starter.
My friend wants a ball to thumb start and after a few dozen shots I found a piece of patch 1/4 inch in size. With a thicker patch he tries to whimp it in. I told him to make a starter with a large ball, not the 1-1/2 inch thing he bought. And then, SMACK the starter.
Greetings, I have used commercial BP and up to 100 grains never tore a hole in my patches wheich are thw typical .010 pillow ticking. Question I have is - how potent is this Bp that you are making? Would you mind sharing the Recipe?In the attached photo are some of the most recent patches I have shot with my Kibler Colonial Rifle which has a 50 caliber Green Mountain barrel. Here is a little history and then my question.
These patches where shot using 80 grains of my home-made BP which is in the 2F-3F grain size, patch material is denim .022” measured with digital caliper and cut off at the muzzle, lubed with Ballistol/Water 5 to 1 mixture, balls were Hornady .490. These are the best-looking patches I have shot with this rifle in just over 100 rounds fired.
I started using my cast .490 balls and have used some Hornady .490 and .495 balls and have used several different patches .010”, .015” .018” sizes made of drill, ticking and other 100% cotton material. I have used Wonderlube, Bore Butter, Spit, and Ballistol straight and different water/Ballistol mixtures. All of these ball and patch and lube combinations have given me completely shredded and destroyed patches, so much so the patches were not recognizable as patches but just shred pieces of cloth. I have used Goex 2F as well as my home-made BP. I have scrubbed the barrel a total of about 250 in and out times with Maroon Scotchbrite. I have attached a .490 ball to a ball extraction screw tip and pushed it down the bore with a .015” lubed patch and extracted it to see if there was any damage to the patch by rough rifling and while I can see rifling marks on the patch there is no damage to it.
I have been shooting traditional muzzle loading firearms for over 50 years. One Lyman Great Plains Rifle, flintlock, Two T/C Hawken style rifles (percussion), a Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle (percussion), Traditions Hawken Woodsman (percussion) and several BP revolvers (all percussion) and various other rifles and pistols (percussion and flintlock) owned by friends. I have never seen patches destroyed like they have been with this rifle. I have seen some undersized patches that have been burned through, but nothing like this.
I am also quite concerned about accuracy, because I can get no consistent grouping like my other rifles. So, my question is - What do I need to do to fix this? I would appreciate any suggestions to remedy this.
No recipe sharing here. Forum rules. Suffice it to say that it can be faster or slower burning than commercial. Faster isn't always a good thing. All depends how you make it. Plenty of online resources elsewhere if you want to get into it.Greetings, I have used commercial BP and up to 100 grains never tore a hole in my patches wheich are thw typical .010 pillow ticking. Question I have is - how potent is this Bp that you are making? Would you mind sharing the Recipe?
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