Sighting in .45 caliber

[Zonie]

There's no way of knowing unless we know what the range is to the target.

At 30 yards the ball is traveling fast and it's only been out of the barrel for an instant and hasn't started its downward fall much due to gravity.

At 100 yards the ball is falling very fast and a difference in velocity will cause it to change its point of impact a lot.

 

[aeatwood]

Lyman and others have tables for drop from line of sight an point of aim in their manuals, based on a given starting velocity. That would be the best place to look. 45's can go from

 

[Number19]

I realized how difficult this would be to pin down. I just made my target 11x17 with the X three inches from the top, giving me 14" of paper below. But I made a mistake in making the X too thin and I can't see it at 100 yds. I can barely see it at 50 yds.

Anyhow, I made it to the range today. It was a slow process plus the range was crowded today. I only shot 2 of the 32 load combinations I have come up with. Here's the results.

The first load with 70 grains is consistent with what I had last week. When I dropped to 65 grains, my second shot was totally my fault. My fifth shot, which I labeled #4, was a test shot to prove to myself I was still shooting on the paper. Even with my spotting scope I could see only one hole in that bottom left quad. Shot numbers 1 and 3 were literally one hole, with #4 elongating it slightly.

I'll slowly continue with the rest of my load combinations, but I can't fathom better results.

One peculiarity - in three weekends, now, I haven't found a single patch. Leatherbark may be correct, except I may be incinerating them completely.

 

[Number19]

This morning I found patches, probably from yesterday.
And,also, here are the results of two more of my load combinations.
What I found this morning was I need to be there
by 8:00 to get a bench but I can't shoot until 9:00 because
the sun is right in my eyes. Even then, the light is not enough to
clearly have a sight picture until about 10:00. Because of this
low light condition, the 55 gr load is reliable. The 60 grain load. less so.

 

[cynthialee]

Try putting something between the powder and patch. That is to say, an over powder wad. Either a fiber wad or a few grains of corn meal or cream of wheat. Bet that will fix that shreaded patch issue. (just don't use paper as an over powder wad in a high fire risk area, I learned that lesson this summer)

Or a tighter patch/ball combination.

 

[md2020]

I save wiping patches and shove them down on the powder before PRB. They seem to take the brunt of the flame. Accuracy is going to suffer with that much patch damage.

 

[Number19]

This coming Friday I'll forgo the remaining powder loads for this .44+.015 combination and move to the .018 patch with the .44 ball.

 

[Number19]

OK, I'm going to start with a question: I know it's not desirable, but is there any negative consequences to incinerating the patches as my gun is currently doing? Or put another way, can you damage your gun shooting this way?

This morning I found a couple of patches from last weekend that are in slightly better condition. These are probably from my last load using 55 grains.

This morning I switched to a pillow tick patch .018 - with the same .440 ball and the 70 grain load and the 65 grain load. As you can see, the condition of the patches are still bad.

But - the consistency of the shot placement is still reasonably fair. I certainly want better, but placing the shots in a 2" circle is not horrendous.

And finally, the last thing I did was to shoot a combination of a .445 ball, .018 pillow tick patch and 65 grains of the Swiss 3F. I did not take a photo, but the condition of the patch was the same as before.

So it's looking like I may have to order some .451. Should I order some .454? Some of you who have shot a "C" barrel by Rice, what did you end up using?

I like the .018 pillow tick patch and hope to find a ball that produces excellent results with this patch. But I guess I'd better go ahead and get some .020 patches.

 

[Zonie]

What kind of patch lube are you using and how much are you applying?

 

[Number19]

I'm using the Wonder Lube patches from TOW, the cotton or the pillow ticking. The size I'm using is for .40-.49 caliber. I thought about whether this was a contributing factor, but just haven't gotten around to inquiring.

I also use Hornady One Shot Muzzleloader Cleaner between shots, with a dry patch until clean.

 

[hanshi]

I have a rifle that always burned and tore patches but still shot really well - I used anything that came along for patches back then. I cured the patch problem with an over powder wad. Later I started using .018 ticking well lubed and no patch problem there, either. It made for nice patches but not much difference in accuracy. It certainly won't hurt the bore.

 

[Zonie]

My reason for asking is the patches shown in the pictures look almost bone dry to me.

Maybe it's just the way the patches appear on my computer?
Or, maybe it's because the other side of the patch was the greased side?

I've talked to a few people who didn't know the greasy side (if the lube is only on one side) goes out, away from the ball so it can not only contact and lube the bore but to serve as a coolant against the heat of the hot powder explosion.

 

[Number19]

These patches are saturated all the way through and although the photo doesn't show it, the color is consistent yellow on each patch and on each side.The ones on the left are probably a more accurate color representation.

I also have a "dry" pillow tick patch I can try. If I use spit to lube, do I get it closer to "slobbering" wet, or "lightly" moistened?

 

[hanshi]

Wet without dripping is what you want.

 

[Number19]

I spoke with someone at the range this morning and he suggested I buy some valve lapping compound and fire lap my barrel. He thinks the grooves may be cutting my patches. He also suggested dropping my powder loads down to the 50-55 gr level, as the Swiss is a "hot" load and this lower charge would be closer to 70 gr Goex. This I already knew but just haven't gotten to yet, on the range. I'd like to solve the problem even with the hotter loads, so what do you think about this fire lapping?

 

[Trench]

I've thought about doing it myself. My patches are well worn where it meets the lands. I probably shouldn't worry about it since I'm getting the accuracy I need....but we strive for perfection. :grin:

 

[Number19]

I spent a long day at the range today and I think I finally solved my burned out patch problem. You tell me.

I first tried a .451 ball with .018 patching, but as you can see from the first photo, during seating, the edge of the grooves completely cut through the patch.

The second photo, both left and right, is my retrieved patch after dropping back down to a .445 ball with a .020 patch and with a 70 gr load. The third photo, on the left, are patches with a 65 gr load; and on the right, 55 gr load.

Target photo #1, left, are with 70 gr. Three holes, but it's actually 4 shots, the bottom hole being 2. On the right is my 60 gr load which I'll discuss later. Target Photo #2, left, is 65 gr. It's the four holes below the line. I turned the target over and shot my 55 gr load; on the right.

I don't understand the lateral pattern for both of these loads; it's may be the shooter.

The 65 gr load was a bust. I ended up shooting 7 shots, six of which show up on the right in photo #1. I had 3 shots grouping just below the line and 3 shots grouping about 6" below that. All of the low shots came out of the barrel "funny" and the barrel was so fouled it took 3 or 4 wet patches and I don't know how many dry patches to clean the barrel. This only happened with the 65 gr load with everything else the same as the other three loads. Go figure. The last photo shows the fouling on my cleaning patch.

But for all the general consensus, none of today's groups are better than the groups I had with the 70 gr load and the 55 gr load with the incinerated/burned patches, shown earlier.

 

[Number19]

Well, I just finished spending nine hours at the range today; after spending about six hours each, Friday and Saturday. Things are finally beginning to come into focus.

I contacted Rice Barrels and confirmed that my grooves are .016 - .018 deep. I've found that while I can shoot a few loads with a .440 ball with fairly good results, so far I haven't totally eliminated burned patches with this ball size.

I also went to Hobby Lobby and found some decent patch material with a thickness of .024".

I talked to an experienced muzzleloader at the range who said he had never been able to get satisfactory results using commercial prelubed patches, so I'm now lubing my own, starting with Mink Oil. He also confirmed that we do have a gentleman who shoots at our range, he actually drives out of Houston, who is one of the two or three best shooters in the U.S. and who has won the National Friendship Championships, I think he said, five or six times. I know I have the spelling incorrect, but it sounded like his name was Steve " eee-fert" - Effert. Perhaps someone may recognize whom I'm referring to.

Anyways, the results of this long weekend of shooting is that I'm zeroing in on a 55gr or 60 gr powder load, using a .445 ball. And although a .020 patch will produce some excellent results, it looks like the thicker .024 patch will give consistently better results over a wider range of loads.

The single best result I've yet to achieve with my gun was with a .445 ball, 60gr of Swiss 3F, with my own patch I'm calling HL024, and Mink Oil lube.

My next rounds of shooting will be to try the same loads with Bumblin Bear Grease, Bore Butter and Young Country Lube.

What looks like a good short term/temporary solution, to insure I'm ready to go the second weekend in January, when our monthly shoots resume, is to go with the 55 gr powder load, if I can consistently duplicate today's results, and to simply adjust my sights horizontally without any filing for vertical adjustment. I'll have to see how high I am at 25 yards and will have to just be satisfied with being low at 100 yards, until I have time for other adjustments.

But I'm satisfied with the progress I made this holiday weekend.

 

[Nessmuck56]

Just scored a .451 mold off of flea-bay for what I wanted to spend . YEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHH