I recently purchased a used Thompson Hawken in .50 cal. and a used Thompson Cherokee in .45 for my son. I used the information and tips that were shared by forum members and actually made it to the range for some target practice.. we had a safe morning of shooting. My son is 11 years old (and a Star rank Boy Scout) who has only fired rifles with brass cartridges in the past. His first comment was "this is a lot of work". After a few shots, he took over swabbing and loading (under supervision) and continued to shoot well past lunch time.. 11-year old boys are always hungry but he did not want to stop shooting. I took that as a good sign.. We did have a couple of misfires.. but after reading a bit on the forum, I noticed that I may have been over-wetting my cleaning patch and pushing a bunch of junk down into the chamber. Anyway, not bad for our first time out... Sorry to ramble on, but I really do have a question! We are using the existing TC iron sights and it appears that the rifle sight is set up for a "6-o'clock" sight picture. For target shooting and woods walk type of events, is it better to adjust the sights so the rifle is sighted dead on? I've been mulling this over for a week now and think I could use some input from people more experienced then me - Thank you
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Little Wattsy
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Sounds like a GREAT day!! :hatsoff:
sunbear209
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I had the same question with my TC Hawken. I am new to muzzleloading, but not shooting. I have always used a 6 o'clock hold with my M1 and other rifles, as well as pistols. I have been shooting my TC extensively lately and I am thinking that with the little bead on top of the front sight, instead of a straight bladed front sight, I will sight in at point of aim. I think the answer lies with shooter preference and which sight picture gives you better groups or scores. My 9 year old loves shooting the "smokey guns" too.
paulvallandigham
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Personal preference and habit. I have been mostly a Trap shooter, and a revolver shooter most of my life. I use a 6 o'clock hold in both shooting activities. Its simply not a problem for me to use the same hold shooting open sights on a rifle. There are obviously different sized bullseyes and if you are zeroed to hit center on an 8 inch bull, shooting at a 4 inch bull might put your shots high, if you don't make an allowance. Practice these kinds of things.
With any MLer, its basically a ONE-shot at a target kind of gun. You can't rush a shot, or you will miss. My problem using a center hold, other than when shooting a scope sight, is that I can't be sure that my front sight is ON the center of the target when it covers the target UP. A Black blade, or bead against a black bullseye is almost impossible to aim properly.
Handgun shooters learn to leave 1 inch of "daylight" under the bullseye, so they can put their black front sight at the 6 o'clock position, and with the rear sight adjusted upward, can still place their bullets in the center of the X ring. The human eye and brain is amazingly able to measure that "one-inch gap" under the bullseye, no matter the distance.
With any MLer, its basically a ONE-shot at a target kind of gun. You can't rush a shot, or you will miss. My problem using a center hold, other than when shooting a scope sight, is that I can't be sure that my front sight is ON the center of the target when it covers the target UP. A Black blade, or bead against a black bullseye is almost impossible to aim properly.
Handgun shooters learn to leave 1 inch of "daylight" under the bullseye, so they can put their black front sight at the 6 o'clock position, and with the rear sight adjusted upward, can still place their bullets in the center of the X ring. The human eye and brain is amazingly able to measure that "one-inch gap" under the bullseye, no matter the distance.
Dave Rosenthal
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Sounds like that Star Scout of yours has to work on some Merit Badges and obtain a position of responsibility in the Troop in order to advance any further, and also to have "time in grade". He only crossed-over the bridge a year ago, so he's come a long way for sure!
As to your sighting question: I prefer to hold dead-on at up to 50 yards, and I can simply adjust my charges to do that, if necessary. I shoot quite a lot of target as well as Novelty Shoots/Woods Walks and I like to aim dead-on, due to the "aim small, miss small" line of thinking.
My rifle shoots pretty flat with 72 grains of 3Fg Goex (a little too much for an 11 year-old!), so I would set-up his rifle to accommodate HIM! I would try 40 grains of 3Fg Goex in that .45 cal rifle. And get his sights adjusted so he can cut a playing card in half at 15 yards! Then he'll be hooked for life!
Good luck to the two of you and may you both enjoy many happy years of shooting together! :thumbsup:
Dave
Eagle Scout Dad
C.O.R. Troop 95, Raritan Bay District, Central Jersey Council
NRA Life Member
NRA Distinguished Expert Muzzleloading Rifle
As to your sighting question: I prefer to hold dead-on at up to 50 yards, and I can simply adjust my charges to do that, if necessary. I shoot quite a lot of target as well as Novelty Shoots/Woods Walks and I like to aim dead-on, due to the "aim small, miss small" line of thinking.
My rifle shoots pretty flat with 72 grains of 3Fg Goex (a little too much for an 11 year-old!), so I would set-up his rifle to accommodate HIM! I would try 40 grains of 3Fg Goex in that .45 cal rifle. And get his sights adjusted so he can cut a playing card in half at 15 yards! Then he'll be hooked for life!
Good luck to the two of you and may you both enjoy many happy years of shooting together! :thumbsup:
Dave
Eagle Scout Dad
C.O.R. Troop 95, Raritan Bay District, Central Jersey Council
NRA Life Member
NRA Distinguished Expert Muzzleloading Rifle
longcruise
70 Cal.
I like to use a smallish front sight and sight in to hit dead on poa. That's for target and hunting. It's just a preference though so just go ahead and fool around with it till you find what you and the boy like.
Presently my hunting rifle has a smallish bead and a v type notch adjustable rear. I put the bead directly over the desired poi and settle the bead into the bottom of the v. Sighted dead on at 100 yards, it's pretty close to dead on at 25 and a couple inches high at 50. All within MOA of a mule deer or elk.
Presently my hunting rifle has a smallish bead and a v type notch adjustable rear. I put the bead directly over the desired poi and settle the bead into the bottom of the v. Sighted dead on at 100 yards, it's pretty close to dead on at 25 and a couple inches high at 50. All within MOA of a mule deer or elk.
Thanks for the advice Dave.. I'm going to practice a bit more and make small changes.. Oddly enough I had been using the 40gr of FFFg Goex on our first outing in the .45. It was comfortable for my son to shoot and he was able to shoot a milk crate full of water filled plastic bottles that morning. My son is enjoying his new rank as you can imagine.. He actually has been a Den Chief for the last 6-months for a Bear Den and is really enjoying it. Also took on the position of Troop Guide for six new Cubs that came into the Troop. I think he enjoys the respect he gets holding positions of responsibility. As long as he stays interested in Scouting, I'm happy.
Pete
"Hope to be an Eagle Scout dad"
C.O.R - Cub Scout Pack 72 - Marlboro N.Y.
Activities/Outings Chair - Boy Scout Troop 72
NRA R.S.O.
Looks like we a number of things in Common... Thanks again for the suggestions.
Pete
"Hope to be an Eagle Scout dad"
C.O.R - Cub Scout Pack 72 - Marlboro N.Y.
Activities/Outings Chair - Boy Scout Troop 72
NRA R.S.O.
Looks like we a number of things in Common... Thanks again for the suggestions.
rafterob
62 Cal.
As has been said it seems a personal preference. I get much better results using a 6:00 hold for targets and that is the bulk of my shooting. You have to learn to make some adjustments when shooting at objects though. If I was planning on hunting much I think I would go with a dead-on hold.
It may be because it was the way I was taught to shoot, but I prefer setting my sights to where the point I aim at is where I intend the bullet to hit. I tried a rifle set up for a 6 o'clock aim once and it felt very awkward to me. Especially when I am out hunting, I don't have to think about anything, just aim and fire. As it has been stated before, I imagine it is more personal preference than anything else.
On a completely unrelated note, it was at a Boy Scout camp that I shot my first black powder and began this whole adventure. At only 11, sounds like your son is well on his way to Eagle. Best of luck to the both of you, Wireman!
On a completely unrelated note, it was at a Boy Scout camp that I shot my first black powder and began this whole adventure. At only 11, sounds like your son is well on his way to Eagle. Best of luck to the both of you, Wireman!
ohio ramrod
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Since I prefer trail shooting ( and actual hunting ) my rifles are set for a six oclock hold at 25 yrds. This allows me to hold center for medium ranges and the top of the targets for longer ranges. I find this works well for me personally and beats "adding powder" etc. for longer ranges. But others have their favorite methods. The thing about this game is learning to go with what you are comfortable with. :hmm:
longcruise
70 Cal.
I used the six O'clock hold for many years and it worked ok. But, here's my question for the *6 O'clockers*; What size target is your hold oriented to? two inch, four inch, six inch?
When I used the 6 O'clock it was based on a 6 inch target which meant that a "flat tire" hold hitting center on the bull would be about 3" high at fifty yards. That's the same trajectory that I use now a days with my POA impact system.
When I used the 6 O'clock it was based on a 6 inch target which meant that a "flat tire" hold hitting center on the bull would be about 3" high at fifty yards. That's the same trajectory that I use now a days with my POA impact system.
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I'm about 99% field shooter, so ranges and target sizes always vary. But that darned 6 o'clock hold gives you the most precise aiming point on paper, even if your bullet or ball is hitting somewhere above point of aim. Dandy on the range, but stinky in the field.
I developed a compromise that suits me fine. I use the 6 o'clock hold for sighting in, but I adjust so my balls hit right where I aim at the base of the bull. My "perfect score" has all shots cutting the bottom edge of the black with a 6 oclock hold.
Yeah, it makes holding and hitting center of a black bull tougher on paper. So be it. But in the field, if I cut the spot I want to hit with that front sight, I know that's where I'm going to hit--- no matter how large or small my target. Trajectory becomes a consideration as distances change, but that's true with any sight-in.
I developed a compromise that suits me fine. I use the 6 o'clock hold for sighting in, but I adjust so my balls hit right where I aim at the base of the bull. My "perfect score" has all shots cutting the bottom edge of the black with a 6 oclock hold.
Yeah, it makes holding and hitting center of a black bull tougher on paper. So be it. But in the field, if I cut the spot I want to hit with that front sight, I know that's where I'm going to hit--- no matter how large or small my target. Trajectory becomes a consideration as distances change, but that's true with any sight-in.
