Silly question about powder charges

[Arkansas Paul]

Greetings,
I have what may be a silly question to experienced folks, but I'm new to traditional style muzzleloaders.
I was looking at the Investarm website and found my rifle (a .54 caliber carbine).
There's a tab for maximum loads.
The charges it gives are:

.530 round ball: FFG - 6,50 grs
26 grs ovial bullet: FFFG - 4,55 grs

So my silly question: What the heck is grs?
It obviously isn't grains.

Any help would be great.

Thanks,

 

[82ndPA]

Greetings,
I have what may be a silly question to experienced folks, but I'm new to traditional style muzzleloaders.
I was looking at the Investarm website and found my rifle (a .54 caliber carbine).
There's a tab for maximum loads.
The charges it gives are:

.530 round ball: FFG - 6,50 grs
26 grs ovial bullet: FFFG - 4,55 grs

So my silly question: What the heck is grs?
It obviously isn't grains.

Any help would be great.

Thanks,

It's grams. 6,50 is euro format for 6.50. Converts to about 100 grains.

 

[dave951]

Yup. More metric system silliness

 

[nchawkeye]

Historically, grains of wheat were used as a measurement of weight, we have continued, with modifications to use the unit today...

There are 437.5 grains in an ounce...There are 7,000 grains in a pound..

 

[Rudyard]

I never gave a thought for the metric measures all my flasks ect go by drams or grains 27&1/2 grains to a dram. 100 grains is 4 drams but that's a hefty charge for a short barreled 54 but each gun likes what it does.
Regards Rudyard

 

[TxGR]

FWIW, the max load on the Lyman branded version of the same rifle was 120 grains of 2Fg. I believe my Dixie Gun Works (Euroarms) M1803 Harper's Ferry rifle was 110 grains. I use 120 grains as the max in my TVM 54 Southern Rifle.

There is a very smart fellow on this site who did some detailed load testing with a 54 caliber rifle. He chose 70 grains. I think that is very light for a 54. He said he uses it for hunting and the deer haven't said anything yet about it being too light of a load.

I kind of have a different philosophy. For target shooting, I'll go with the most accurate load within limits. For hunting, I prefer the most powerful load that achieves hunting accuracy within the limits of the gun. As always, every gun varies as do the preferences of the owner.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

There is a very smart fellow on this site who did some detailed load testing with a 54 caliber rifle. He chose 70 grains. I think that is very light for a 54. He said he uses it for hunting and the deer haven't said anything yet about it being too light of a load.

For hunting purposes, I've always used a .50 cal inline, and the people at my deer camp always scoff at my load.
I load 80 grains of Pyrodex and a 295 grain bullet.
I killed a doe at 170 yards with it. It performs great.

I'm excited to get started with real muzzleloaders.

 

[Rudyard]

For hunting purposes, I've always used a .50 cal inline, and the people at my deer camp always scoff at my load.
I load 80 grains of Pyrodex and a 295 grain bullet.
I killed a doe at 170 yards with it. It performs great.

I'm excited to get started with real muzzleloaders.

I wouldn't dream of shooting a Hinde at any more than 55 yards but here that's along shot .Ive never used or seen Pyrodex. and distain in lines as 'season cheaters'. But since we have NO seasons I doubt any of these abominations are in NZ . Ime about to go' for a shot' as they say, so Ime taking a Scots interpretation ' English lock' with just the' Dog' to serve as half bent .No trigger guard of course just a horn ball to serve as one But each too his own.
Regards Rudyard

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Ive never used or seen Pyrodex. and distain in lines as 'season cheaters'.

I know a lot of folks feel that way, and I don't blame them.
With the technology and optics on them, they're basically a modern rifle. For me it is simply a tool that extends my deer season and makes it easier to put venison in the freezer.
I don't have any particular love for them. I do love the traditional aspects of the old style guns, which is why I bought one and joined this forum. I hope to catch on quickly and be taking the Hawken to the woods next season.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

What you need to do is find the maximum powder your barrel can burn, then work down to find the most accurate load.
The Davenport Formula does just that. find it and use it. Powder costs a lot these days

 

[Pete G]

…or you could forget all the claptrap and just load 85 gr. of powder behind a patched round ball.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

…or you could forget all the claptrap and just load 85 gr. of powder behind a patched round ball.

I don't disagree with you, and that's precisely what I intend to do, pick a charge to start with and shoot it.
But I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to guns and I'd like to learn all the nomenclature around these.

 

[Grenadier1758]

As we know by now, the grs is for grams. When @Arkansas Paul selects his load, he should be using a volume powder measure. There's a lot to learn and a lot of nomenclature to learn. Do try some different loads to see if there an improvement (or not) in performance. Load development is ultimately an important part of shooting the traditional guns.

 

[gunpa]

My relatively new Investarms Hawken 54 cal lists 110 grains for max with round balls and 90 with 400 grain conical. My manual is in " American".

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

I have yet to find a .50-54 caliber flintlock with a patched round ball that won't kill a deer with 70-85 grains of FFFg powder, out to reasonable distance. Reasonable has to do with conditions and sights. Light and distance in the woods, where I hunt, can make a clean killing shot into a unsure wounding shot. More power behind the bullet does nothing if you can't hit our quarry. Perfect light and good conditions? Maybe 100 yards. Speckled light in a dark forest? Maybe 60 yards.

You must know your flintlock and how it shoots to all distances, and know the limitations of your sights.

I do not like scoped in-lines as a personal matter, although I admit to owning one. It does marvelous things to 150 yards with modern saboted bullets. But it violates my values for muzzleloading hunting.

More powder does not necessarily create more effectiveness. Accuracy and the ability to deliver the ball to the target is everything.

ADK Bigfoot

 

[The Crisco Kid]

…or you could forget all the claptrap and just load 85 gr. of powder behind a patched round ball.

Naa, 80 grains is a lot better load.

 

[OldNo7]

Yup. More metric system silliness

To follow up on THAT -- you gotta Google the SNL (Saturday Night Live) skit on "Washington's Dream".

It's related to that comment -- honest! And it's hilarious!

Old No7

 

[longcruise]

Naa, 80 grains is a lot better load.

You wouldn't say that if you ever tried 82!

 

[Bad Karma]

I never gave a thought for the metric measures all my flasks ect go by drams or grains 27&1/2 grains to a dram. 100 grains is 4 drams but that's a hefty charge for a short barreled 54 but each gun likes what it does.
Regards Rudyard

For a few years I’ve been picking up antique powder flasks here and there. I’m a big fan of the Dixon, Hawkesly, and others using adjustable spouts marked in drams. Easy to use frankly much higher quality than anything I’ve bought new in my lifetime…

 

[RRidgely52]

…or you could forget all the claptrap and just load 85 gr. of powder behind a patched round ball.

I'd start at 70 grains and go up....