Simple ? for you Gurus

[Okwaho]

I am surprised, no- aghast- that Okwaho has nothing to say on the subject. All I can surmise is that he is hibernating or is in a state of shock over hearing that Rodgers Rangers carried Tulle's.

Let's use some reason here. Roger's Rangers were outfitted British troops fighting the French. There was long-standing war between Britain and France, separated by periods of posturing and positioning for another conflict. Each side believed they were inherently superior to the other. Roger's Rangers using "Tulles" (let's substitute French fusils here) would be like Americans using Japanese or German arms in WWII, or Russion arms in Vietnam. Of course, it made sense to pick up a gun in battle from a fallen enemy- and keep it or destroy it or give it to an ally. But Rodgers Rangers and other companies all needed to be carrying the same caliber balls, no confusion there. What if one guy was short on paper cartridges and could not use those from his comrades because they would not fit down the bore? These were military companies, not bands of woodsmen.

Good post Rich and the anwer to the above is a little of both.I agree with you,and Mike here plus Mike R. and tg make valid points.Now let's get to the nitty gritty. First of all Tulle is a manufacturer NOT A TYPE OF GUN.Tulle went into business in the late 17th century and by contract with the King through the Ministry de la Marine furnished guns to be sent to America.It made Buccaneer muskets,Common and Grenadier muskets, and Hunting muskets,the last being Fusils de chasse and Fusils fin de chasse.There were some very fine fins called Fusils fin de chasse et de service. Tulle guns were manufactured for the King from 1691 until March 1,1741.They were from the beginning NOT trade guns {Fusils de trait}but rather made for the white population and selected Indian chiefs.The common and grenadier muskets went to the Compagnies franches{called by many incorrectly "French Marines"}The Fusils de chasse went to the Milice,licensed Coureurs de bois,traders,and other white personel.The fin guns went to selected Indian chiefs,officers and high ranking White Canadians.From the beginning trade guns were designated Fusils de trait by their manufacturers but Tulle guns continued to
be called hunting or fine muskets with no mention of their being called trade guns.Makers of these Fusils de trait were St.Etienne{probably the most prolific}Charleville,and Maubege all three of which had been designated "Manufacturers Royales" by the King in 1718,Tulle would not achieve that status until Dec.12,1777.Other makers in France and the low country continued to make guns for New France. Additionally there were a number of guns sent from Liege and I have been researching these Liegeois guns which have been largely ignored by most writers except for references by Bouchard{1980} and Hamilton{1980}.

All of this changed on March 1,1741 when the last contract was signed between Tulle and the King through his Ministry de la Marine.The 1728 Infantry musket was introduced in New France in the 1740's gradually replacing the Marine musket made by Tulle followed by later models of that series with the Ministry de la marine buying more and more guns from St. Etienne.It has been suggested that the Model 1717 was used in New France but there is scant evident.Various manufacturers,including Tulle, continued to make hunting muskets for New France but it is doubtful that they were made in the numbers sent over in the 1691-1741 period.Fusils de chasse and Fusils fin de chasse continued to be made and Tulle apparently continued to maintain it's reputation for excellence especially among Native customers.Thus it can be seen that Tulle guns made for civilian and Militia use diminished in numbers and the Common and Grenadier military muskets became almost exclusively the province of St. Etienne and the other two Royal Armories.This continued for some 15 years until the out break of the Seven Years war in Europe and the F&I War in America.I rather doubt there were large numbers of Tulle Fusils de Chasse still in the hands of French Canadians at the beginning of the war.There were French guns captured at Fortress Louisbourg and later at Ft.Carillon{Ticonderoga}and at Quebec but these guns were taken to Boston and elsewhere and sold probably at auction.As to French guns being issued to Rogers' Rangers,I have been unable to find any reference to their use of French guns and if there were any sizeable number used by them such guns would have been French infantry muskets and a very few Fusils de chasse which by virtue of their light construction and inability to mount a bayonet would have made them unsuitable for military use and as Rich has pointed out the difference in caliber would have presented a more serious problem.

The issue of the cut back British muskets has been well addressed by Mike Brooks. The segments of barrels found at Rogers Island ranged from 2-4 in.which would have produced a 42-44 in. barrel,the length of a Short Land Pattern musket."The Short Land Pattern which appears to have begun life as a Dragoon weapon made it's appearance in the early 1740's,and had a a wooden ramrod until it's supercession by a carbine in 1770.From this it would appear that the Short Land muskets with wooden ramrods classify as Dragoon muskets and would not have been used by Infantry" "British Military Longarms 1715-1815" by D.W. Bailey P.15.

As to Fuzee{the French pronunciation of Fusil}and Fusee{apparently British in origin}these two terms have apparently become synomomous with each other British and Americans to the point that they are really interchangeable.

I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much.
Tom Patton

 

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I can't get that musket out of my head. I prefer my Charleville over the Bess because it is lighter. The even lighter Tulle appeals to me even more. Lol, looks like its time to sell the Bess.

 

Rogers Rangers were recruited or volunteered from the civilian population and could have brought a variety of guns with them, but also were likely provided with British arms. In Hearn's book on muskets of the AWI and F&I War he states that the British arms used in the colonies during the F&I War were a mixed lot of early musket versions likely all made prior to 1756. Thus the later model Brown Bess would also not have been used by Rogers Rangers. Parkman, in his classic Montcalm&Wolf, just says that Rogers Rangers carried smoothbores loaded with buckshot, sometimes ball and sometimes both....Some of you may have more extensive references that could fill in the details?
P.S., Hearn also says that a good number of the "British" arms were Dutch muskets and ones made in Liege.

 

It was too early this am---I should have referenced Ahearn, not 'Hearn'--sorry.