Six shooter C&B

[azmntman]

Got out today and took the 1849 5 shot. Loaded at home with 4 shots. While shootong loaded all five. No safety notch. BTW took the 25 yr old daughter who has shot maybe 4 times in her life. 7 yds she obliterated a peach first shot :shocked2: (mentioned something about "____'s" head ex abusive boy friend ya know). LOL

Then she took the .36 I JUST got grouping last week (after 15+/- years). Off hand she hits a bulls eye at 25 yds :surrender:

:shake:

 

[crockett]

I'm not being argumentative and in the past I've been wrong on a few thing, so never say never, but it still seems to me highly unlikely that a dropped gun will rotate a cylinder far enough to put the hammer under a cap and then create enough force on the hammer to fire the cap. That test I tried, forcing a holstered gun against a door jam so that the jam contacted the hammer, maybe my revolver fits tightly in the holster but I couldn't figure out a way to exert enough pressure on the hammer to get it to move.
On the dropped gun, unless you did a flip and a gun dropped out of a holster, the dropped gun would entail a gun being held by the hand- to me that's no longer a safe carry issue.
And there is still the issue of the gun's next chamber being loaded.
The only remaining issue is if the gun does not have a pin or if the pin does not properly fit into the groove in the hammer face- but that is a short coming of a particular firearm. If properly fitted the cylinder should not move unless the hammer is pulled back, so you would have to have a dropped gun, the gun hit in such a manner to rotate a cylinder AND also pull back the hammer so as to move out of the pin.
But ...we all have our own comfort level. For example the cocked and locked 1911 Gvt. Model. It has been thrown off buildings and didn't fire but a lot of folks don't like carrying it cocked and locked. The same folks will hunt with a modern rifle with a round in the chamber and the safety on. It's a personal thing.
I still think what got everything confused was the arrival of 1873 Colt SSA. That's when the load 5 practice got going and because the percussion looks pretty much the same today's shooters are applying the peacemaker practice retroactively to the percussion guns.
Safety is a relative thing. Some side by side shotguns with the tang safety, there is very little metal keeping the sear from moving. Any degree of wear and that type safety can fail if the gun is given a hard knock. The old Rem700 had a two part system in which a particle of dust could foul up the safety. I suppose if you carry a holstered percussion loaded 6 with the hammer on a pin AND you are on a horse- where you might fall off and the gun fall out of the holster- a leather thong to keep the gun holstered might be wise.

 

[M. De Land]

I finally got around to getting some Triple 7 chronograph readings on the two bullet types Rodwha so graciously sent to me last fall(sorry I was so slow) and here they are for those who may be interested.
I used Triple 7 for two and one 3F Goex load on the heavy bullet for comparison.
All were shot in a Centennial model Ruger Old Army 7.5 inch barrel.
Load #1. 35 grains of Triple 7 behind the short bullet averaged 1089 fps.
Load #2. 35 grains Triple 7 behind the longer bullet. average 1002 fps.
Load #3. 35 grains of 3F Goex behind long bullet averaged 701 fps.
I used one 1/8 inch grease felt wad behind all loads and could have probably squeezed in 3 more grains of powder.
I ran out of one kind of bullets( I think the short ones) before I thought to weigh them. The bullets I have left come in right at 190 grains. I'm not sure wither this is the long or short bullet weight not having any left to compare when I remembered to weigh them.

 

[BeoBill]

With all due respect:

Video or it didn't happen.

It appears to me that you're arguing that there would be enough inertia to move the hammer a half inch+ and work the internal mechanicals to defeat a mechanical lock.

 

[crockett]

It is true that the hammer on an empty chamber will have the bolt in the notch and lock up the gun better than on a pin. You cannot argue otherwise. To me, there are two issues, carrying a holstered gun and carrying a gun by hand. This issue of dropping a gun. If in a holster- you would have to fall in order for the gun to fall out.
I suppose anything is possible but off hand it seems to me that the scenario is an almost impossible situation, first the gun would have to drop in such a manner that the cylinder rotated enough to get the hammer over the cap of the next chamber AND at the same time the hammer would have to be drawn back far enough that the spring had enough force to cause the hammer to explode the cap OR the initial drop was on the hammer- and somehow that caused the cylinder to rotate under a cap while at the same time knocking the hammer hard enough to explode the cap. You would almost have to compare that probability with any similar freak event.
But all this brings up a good point, a gun falling out of a holster. Regardless of an accidental misfire, a dropped gun might damage the gun. Probably the best option is to have a rawhide thong that tied the gun into the holster if you are scrambling over rocky terrain or riding a horse.

 

[Zonie]

It's really too bad that the people back in the mid 1800's didn't write about common things they did (and slightly uncommon things like how they carried their revolvers).

Had they written something like,

"Like most people, Sam and the boys all loaded up their 1851 and 1860 Colts with 6 rounds and placing the hammer on the safety pin, holstered it so it would be ready for whatever was to come."

we would have a good grasp on how they treated their revolvers and what they did if they wanted to load all 6 chambers.

Because safety features like the Colt pins and the Remington notches were demanded by the Army before they would approve the guns for purchase, I would think that somewhere, there must be at least something written by the Army about rules requiring the men to use the safety devices.

I do agree, most of the people who carried the 1873 Colt were advised to carry the gun loaded with 5 rounds and the hammer on the empty chamber.

This was important because the Colt hammers firing pin would rest directly on the primer if the chamber under it was loaded.
Even the slightest whack on the hammer could fire the cartridge. :shocked2:

There is no question that the older percussion revolvers were a bit safer if the safety features were used but the question in my mind is, did the common person at that time use them?

 

[nkbj]

Well I be.
I just knew that half cock notch was for something or the other.

 

[crockett]

Well, maybe there is a little evidence. There is a photo of Confederate cavalry man Maddox (sic?) with all 6 loaded. Six years after Robert E. Lee died someone fired off his Colt 1851 and all 6 chambers fired okay. Maybe the most compelling is the fact that the military almost universally used combustible cartridges for the revolvers and the packets contained 6 rounds. I have come across accounts of someone grabbing a long arm by the muzzle and pulling it towards themselves and the trigger caught and fired (would have to have been on full cock) and powder horns blowing up in people's hands while reloading but I have not read of any revolver accidents as far as 6 rounds. That said, it is also worth noting that safe practices back then were not always followed.
One other thing, I thought this thread started with the notion of a safe way to carry a holstered revolver, not just having a revolver lying around some place- that's why I was focused on how hard it would be to move the cylinder on a holstered gun enough to cause an accidental firing.

 

[Gene L]

Were there no accidental discharges, as you stated, back then using the safety mechanisms? I’ve certainly not cared enough to exhaust any reasonable searches, but I’ve not seen any. No doubt there was some sort of accident in those 40-something years. Nothing was 100% until lawyers were involved, right?

And Gene actually might find himself dealing with bear, and possibly problems ones if he’s around the AT, where they’ve been known to target backpackers knowing they carry food. Granted they don’t generally attack them per se. Guess that is all subjective to what happened, how, and one might process that I suppose.

I have bear spray and a thick wooden walking stick, along with other stuff, but these will generally handle a typical black bear ordeal, and I’m not afraid to shoot one but prefer to handle it differently if I can. I’ve not been put in this situation as we don’t have many bears in TX, but that’s how I intend to handle the situation if it arises, and assuming it’s typical.

I carry 6 in mine. The safety is now solid on my Pietta NMA after I modified the hammer nose to fit the slots, and always was on my ROA. Maybe I just don’t push through thick brush with a holster so loose it allows my pistol to move around as some of you apparently do. I can turn my ROA upside down in the holster and it won’t fall. It’s tight.

Last week in Jackson Hole, a guide was killed by a bear while trying to recover an animal for a client, who was also injured. There may have been two bears: can't remember. Anyway, one of them used bear spray, which didn't stop the attack but helped identify the guilty bear, which was later killed.

 

[azmntman]

I read about that. The two accounts I read stated nothing about spray though? It may be the 1st time a fatality occurred when spray was used. Could matter greatly if spray was used during rather than before the attack though?

 

[Gene L]

https://ktvh.com/news/us-news/2018/...ound-near-wyoming-guide-killed-in-bear-attack/

 

[azmntman]

Didn't see that one. Very odd bear behavior, too bad mom was teaching jr. such bad habits. :shake: