Slanted Breech vs. Straight Breech?

[Jay Gardner]

I have two "Haeken" style rifles, one with a slanted breech one with a straight. Is one more desirable (and, if so why) and is one more accurate historically?

Thanks

 

[plmeek]

If you mean Hawken as in Jake and Sam, the answer is they are both historically correct. A number of J&S Hawken rifles had straight breeches, but some had slant breeches. See Sublette-Beale J & S Hawken article (Topic#241364) under Percussion Rifles.

After Jake died, Sam continued to make both straight and slanted breeches. The classic Sam Hawken plains rifle of the late 1850's such as Carson's in the Masonic Lodge, Santa Fe and Bridger's in the Montana State Historical collection have a slant breech.

It's dangerous to generalize about Hawken rifles because no two are exactly alike, but a straight breech would be appropriate for a J&S Hawken and a slant breech would be appropriate for a Sam Hawken plains rifle. Although maybe less common, the reverse would be true, also.

 

[Jay Gardner]

Sorry about the mis-spelling. Typing too fast and not paying attention.

 

[plmeek]

That's ok. Neither spelling nor typing are my long suits.

Tell us some more about your rifles. What are their makes? Custom or production? Calibers, barrel lengths? Half stock or full?

 

[Jay Gardner]

Posted this photo under the photo topic. The top rifle was made in 1977 by Kenny Sutton of Union City, IN. This is the gun with the slant breech. It is a .54 cal with a 34" Douglas (xx) barrel. The stock is walnut. This gun is very special to me because it was owned by one of the fellows I admired as a kid and still hunt with now, 35-years later.

The middle rifle was made by Roger Bruss, also of Union City, IN about the same time. Roger passed away 3-4 years ago. This rifle has a straight breech with a 36" barrel and is a .50 cal.

Both guns spent time on the line in Friendship and both are capable of delivering groups better than I can but the .54 is a tack driver. I don't know what Kenny did with the sights but even with my 50-year old eyes I can line the sights up pretty darn well.

 

[ezyed]

What is the difference between a slant breech and a straight breech?

 

[LaBonte]

Slant Breech - note how where the rear of the plug (aka snail) mates with the standing breech it is slanted

Straight breech - here where the two pieces mate it is straight

(First two pictures source - Track of the Wolf)

The slant makes it easier to get a good fit between the two pieces

But one must ignore the shape of the snail and only determine whether a breech plug is a slant or straight by the joint - both types used various shaped snails - here are two more with similar snails to the first two but the opposite in so far as straight or slanted

Slant breech on an 1840's J & S Hawken....

Straight on an 1850's S. Hawken....

 

[ezyed]

Thanks for the good p[ctures pointing out the difference. I would think that the straight breech would have slight advantage in keeping the action tighter over many firings. Do not intend to get the people who own a slant breech in a tizzie, just my thoughts.
Thank you
Ed

 

[plmeek]

Since the slant breech appears to be more common on the later Hawkens, it's logical to assume they felt it was an improvement over the straight.

Braird has a reference to Bill Large, who says the slant breech was an easier construction and resulted in a tighter lockup between the hook on the breech and the socket in the tang. It is less likely to work loose over time as the recoil actually drives the hook up and tighter into the socket.

LaBonte, you have an enviable collection of Hawken photos. I always enjoy your postings.

 

[ron ward]

the slant breech will generally have the advantage.
as everything settles in from firing after the barrel has been out of the gun the slant breech will have a tendency to cam up tight and stay that way. the confluence of angles between the breechplug and the tounge is made so that they just slightly wedge together and remain tight, so the barrel settles in to the same spot evry time.
with the straight breech, there is no preference in settlement and they can actually remain loose moving slightly and differently with each shot.
that said, the effect on accuracy is obvious.