Slugging Pietta 1858 Barrel

[mikewinn]

i just read and now I can't find a topic where a member slugged the barrel of his Pietta 1858 and then rimmed the cylinder to match the barrels lands and grooves. Can someone point me to that topic please.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I used the Advanced Search and searched only the "Handgun" forum for the word "slugged". :wink:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/286106

 

[mikewinn]

Thanks Claude. After talking to someone else I think I'll forgo slugging the barrel. Apparently the Pietta 1858s have an uneven number of lands and grooves making it difficult to get an accurate measurement. Anyway I think all I'm going to do is chamfer the cylinder chambers slightly so you don't get that lead rind and which is help swage the RBs and conicals.

 

[hawkeye2]

If you are only interested in the relationship of the bore to cylinder on one gun try this: Force an oversize ball through the barrel and then load it in a chamber. It should fit without removing any lead. If it does than the chamber is larger than the bore. If it shaves lead or slightly reduces the diameter of the ball (you will be able to see the marks on the ball) than the chamber is too small and should be reamed. Remove the nipple and push the ball out with a dowel or brass rod.

 

[BowerR64]

It works i did this to a few guns that i have and then used a .457 ball and ive never shot a colt better then i have after i did this.

I bought 2 tools off amazon they were both adjustable reamers (one was like $4. the other was like $7.). I even did it with a hand drill and it still turned out good. The cheap one was recomended to only use a few times and it wouldnt cut good the more expensive one said it could cut a few more times with out issues. I did one to a colt and one to a remmie (im still testing but so far ide recomend it)

I wasnt happy at first because i used .454 balls and i thought i reamed them to large the balls were moving in the chambers each shot but once i tried the .457 i put 5 of the 6 balls into the same hole.

I was pretty shocked it shot so well.

I used 20g swiss (by weight) and 17g of cream of wheat (in the black flask). The remmie i used a .451 rb (its stock) and right i used the .457 rb (reamed chambers slightly over)

 

[hawkeye2]

I have had all my Remingtons (6 + 1 spare cyl.) reamed to .456" and use a .457" ball. I cut new forcing cones with a shallower angle and have had no problems with balls engaging the rifling all the way to the bottom of the groves. My universal load is 22 grains of 3f and Cream of Wheat with lube over the ball.

 

[mikewinn]

Wow at what range were you shooting and was that off hand or with a rest?

 

[hawkeye2]

N-SSA matches are at 25 and 50 yards, one hand, arm extended. Rapid fire for team matches.

I think you are asking the question of BowerR64 though, sorry for answering.

 

[Wes/Tex]

N-SSA matches are at 25 and 50 yards, one hand, arm extended.

Or the George Custer semi-extended...
http://www.ltisdschools.org/cms/lib/TX21000349/Centricity/Domain/47/custer-last-stand-1.jpg

 

[hawkeye2]

The upper arm cannot be in contact with the body if that position is used.

 

[Wes/Tex]

To say nothing of getting 'doinked" twixed the baby blues every time you touched her off....

"BOOM!"
"Thunk"
"OUCH!' :wink: :haha:

 

[Bear Rider]

It appears to be the proper arm position for being fitted for an arrow shirt. :grin:

 

[BowerR64]

Wow at what range were you shooting and was that off hand or with a rest?

only 15 yards and i was using a rest but i atleast know the gun can do that if i can hold a still enough shot.

Im handicap in a wheelchair T12 parapaligic so i dont have any upper trunk support for one hand shooting. The gun extended infront of me is enough to tip me over.

I always know i cant hit something with a Remington but after doing the ream to the colt NOW the colt can compete with the Rem and THAT makes me happy. Ive never had this kind of luck with any colt i have till now.

IMO it outshot the Rem that day.

 

[Melnic]

Bower can you point us to the better one from Amazon you saw?

 

[Melnic]

slugged mine today
Took a .457 ball, some grease and dowel
Black lines on the lands recesses are from me marking with a sharpie
Measured the cylinder with calipers.
I guess I could drive a ball down, then push it out and measure that to double check it.

 

[BowerR64]

I got this from the THR forum where this guy gave me the links and stuff.

This one for a cylinder or two.
Cheap reamer

This one if you have several to do
Better .44 reamer

This one for .36 cal
>36 reamer

You should be able to the entire job on one or two cylinders for less than $20 or multiple cylinders for less than $30 unless you need to buy a tap handle.

It sounds crazy to do this but you have to remember your going from .451 to .454 or so, your just shaving the chambers a few thousands all the way around. Its not a whole lot but you will be suprised how much it really helps.

 

[BowerR64]

slugged mine today
Took a .457 ball, some grease and dowel
Black lines on the lands recesses are from me marking with a sharpie
Measured the cylinder with calipers.
I guess I could drive a ball down, then push it out and measure that to double check it.

So the grooves are deeper then the chambers? So when you ram the ball into the cylinder at and it fires out at .444 the lands are being filled in by the ball but the grooves are alowing gas to escape.

Here is what i did, i push a ball into the chamber on one of mine. Then i pushed it into the muzzle and put a bore light in the back and took a picture.

I think some times using a wad, grease or filler can fill in those gaps and it will be ok but i dont know about consistancy.

Ide rather just fix the chambers

 

[BowerR64]

Ill tell you, i went round and round with my guns and couldnt figure out what i was doing wrong but if you keep reading these forums and asking questions you will eventually dig tips and tricks outta these old timmers that have been doing this for years. It took me a few months of asking and asking and they let out little bits at a time then finally they give up their secrets and thats when thhings really get fun and you start tearing the centers out of your targets.

The first post i remember reading about this a guy asked "whats the first thing i should do to a new gun?" and the reply was "slug it" thats all we got. Then after a while they opened up why and what it was all about. I didnt understand why or how hammering a ball threw the barrel could help anything. Eventually it started to make sence

I think sometimes it becomes second nature to these guys that have everything figured out

 

[M. De Land]

Bower, that doesn't tell you very much actually because the ball is obturated (expanded) by inertia, pressure and the forcing cone, even out of an undersize chamber mouth.
Some guns can demonstrate very good accuracy with undersize chamber mouths because of ball obturation but I don't feel it is ideal personally.
Still I feel the less the ball has to obturate to fill the groove, the more harmonious will be the accuracy out come.
A formula that works well for ball or bullet is to ream the cylinder mouth at or .001 over groove diameter.
The reason an undersize ball can work in a barrel with larger grooves is because the unburned portion of the powder slug at the base of the ball is still sealing the bore off to gas escapement while the ball transitions the forcing cone and the ball obturates to fill the grooves.
Slugging by running a ball or bullet through a bore only tells one what the diameters of tightest spot in that barrel is.
If it is tightest in the muzzle, all is well but very often in revolvers it will be under the barrel threads just ahead of the forcing cone from the choking action of the barrel being torqued into the frame.
This always needs to be lapped out for best accuracy. Mike D.

 

[Dickydalton]

I've never slugged any of mine but I have recovered many wads, some still stuck to the ball. They show the rifling marks and no sign of gas leakage.