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Small flintlock pistols?
- Thread starter Cool
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Complete piece of garbage.
"...Complete piece of garbage."
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Boy! I hate it when folks beat around the bush about things. :rotf:
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Boy! I hate it when folks beat around the bush about things. :rotf:
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Here's one by Twigg of London - early 19th century...
I saved up for over a year when I was 12 or so to get that one.
I saved up for over a year when I was 12 or so to get that one.
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No, I've never shot it. The barrel is frozen on it, and while I could get a wrench made up to take it off, I'd hate to break anything on it.
I have shot an original percussion screw-barrel that I own. At about 10 feet, the ball bounced off 1/2" plywood and dropped onto the toe of my boot. That was enough of that...well, after a few more shots at a haybale, actually...no, I did shoot it again at least one other time (just stupid, I guess :shake: ), but never again at anything like plywood.
I have seen someone get a bullet back in the family jewels from a bowling pin. Didn't penetrate his jeans, but he went down. I'd rather not have that (or an eye, even with glasses) happen to me. If you want to shoot one, be very careful. That ball is travelling very slowly.
I have shot an original percussion screw-barrel that I own. At about 10 feet, the ball bounced off 1/2" plywood and dropped onto the toe of my boot. That was enough of that...well, after a few more shots at a haybale, actually...no, I did shoot it again at least one other time (just stupid, I guess :shake: ), but never again at anything like plywood.
I have seen someone get a bullet back in the family jewels from a bowling pin. Didn't penetrate his jeans, but he went down. I'd rather not have that (or an eye, even with glasses) happen to me. If you want to shoot one, be very careful. That ball is travelling very slowly.
Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
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Most of these little guns do that. Ladies carried them for protection--they are sometimes called ladies muff pistols since they could be carried in the hand warmers ladies used. They aren't powerful guns, but the average scoundrel back then still wanted no part of them. A contact wound from one could really ruin a criminal's day.
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Actually, true muff pistols are smaller still, and almost invariably have folding triggers, although I don't blame you for not being able to see the size, since I didn't include the scale. The Twigg is about .45-.50 caliber, with a 2"-2 1/2" barrel. Here are a pair of true muff pistols, percussion this time by Samuel Nock. They are about .32 caliber, and about 3 1/2" overall.
You can see the small scale from the size of my fingers.
On another thread, I think it was Squire Robin who mentioned the Samuel Nock pioneered the medium quality, mass-produced pistol in Britain. that's likely true, but he was capable of good work, as these demonstrate. Not up to Henry Nock's better work, but I like them.
You can see the small scale from the size of my fingers.
On another thread, I think it was Squire Robin who mentioned the Samuel Nock pioneered the medium quality, mass-produced pistol in Britain. that's likely true, but he was capable of good work, as these demonstrate. Not up to Henry Nock's better work, but I like them.
Russ T Frizzen
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Essentially Deringers long before Deringer came along! You're right, I did think the first pistol was smaller than it is. It's more of a coat pocket size, I guess?
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Yes, the Twigg sort of fills the "gap" between muff pistols and the so-called "overcoat pistols" or travelling pistols produced by Rigby, Nock, and others. They were the deringers of their day. The screw-barrel was a neat concept, but the powder chambers on these guns were generally tiny. All the same, as you said, nobody wanted to get shot with one, particularly in an age where people didn't understand germ theory and bacterial infection too well.
Then the Twigg pistol is about the size of a Philadelphia Derringer in .45 with 2 1/2" barrel made by Herny Deringer?
The second pair is even nicer. Thank you for the fingers.That is really small. Good to hide. And I do not want to be on the rceiving end, even the .32.
Yes, I understand that you that you do not shoot with this pistol. No need to damge a fine original.
I am a little bit surprised that the bullet did not penetrate plywood of 1/2". I have posted in the photo section targets what we call "Ehrenscheibe". When we shoot at 25 m with ten grain Swiss Nr 2 and a .31 patched lead round bullet at 20mm plywood, the bullet goes straigth through the wood. When we take about 40mm plywood or 40mm beech, than the bullet enters the wood but does not go through. We have never experienced a returning bullet.
At 50m a plate of 50 mm or roughly 2" of oak is easily smashed by a .45 230 grain maxiball with 50 grain Swiss Nr.2 form a Tryon. That is why we turned to .31 caliber pistol and 25m.
The damage to the target is less with .31 pistol. On the front side hole in caliber size, back side large unregular holes which are long holes. Pieces of wood from the rear stick in the carrier of the target.
The second pair is even nicer. Thank you for the fingers.That is really small. Good to hide. And I do not want to be on the rceiving end, even the .32.
Yes, I understand that you that you do not shoot with this pistol. No need to damge a fine original.
I am a little bit surprised that the bullet did not penetrate plywood of 1/2". I have posted in the photo section targets what we call "Ehrenscheibe". When we shoot at 25 m with ten grain Swiss Nr 2 and a .31 patched lead round bullet at 20mm plywood, the bullet goes straigth through the wood. When we take about 40mm plywood or 40mm beech, than the bullet enters the wood but does not go through. We have never experienced a returning bullet.
At 50m a plate of 50 mm or roughly 2" of oak is easily smashed by a .45 230 grain maxiball with 50 grain Swiss Nr.2 form a Tryon. That is why we turned to .31 caliber pistol and 25m.
The damage to the target is less with .31 pistol. On the front side hole in caliber size, back side large unregular holes which are long holes. Pieces of wood from the rear stick in the carrier of the target.
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Can you imagine the critics if the Twigg guns were made today? They would decry the stock as being a slab of wood without imagination to it. :yakyak:
The Doc is out now. :v
The Doc is out now. :v
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Since these are originals, the prices vary depending where you find one. You can't simply order one from your local sporting goods store or from Cabela's, although they might have one or more in their antique arms collections in some of the bigger stores.
Look on the web for screw-barrel pistols, and/or contact large or specialty dealers like Old Town Station/Kull & Supica, Bob Brecht, Horst Held, Dixie or similar. Expect to pay anywhere from $300 - $700 or more, depending on the dealer and the piece. Even then it typically will not come with the barrel wrench, and you'll have to have that made or make it. Then you'll have to see if you can get the barrel unscrewed without breaking the threads and whether the pistol is safe to use or a potential hand grenade.
It can be done, but it's not as simple as ordering one from a catalogue and taking it out to the range. :v
Look on the web for screw-barrel pistols, and/or contact large or specialty dealers like Old Town Station/Kull & Supica, Bob Brecht, Horst Held, Dixie or similar. Expect to pay anywhere from $300 - $700 or more, depending on the dealer and the piece. Even then it typically will not come with the barrel wrench, and you'll have to have that made or make it. Then you'll have to see if you can get the barrel unscrewed without breaking the threads and whether the pistol is safe to use or a potential hand grenade.
It can be done, but it's not as simple as ordering one from a catalogue and taking it out to the range. :v
You migth find prices in Great Britain at
http://www.henrykrank.com/flintlock_pistols.html
Prices in British curency ranging mostly between 700 and 1500 or about 1100 $ to 2400 $. One pair is rated 4250 pounds roughly 6 800 $.
http://www.henrykrank.com/flintlock_pistols.html
Prices in British curency ranging mostly between 700 and 1500 or about 1100 $ to 2400 $. One pair is rated 4250 pounds roughly 6 800 $.
Col-- I hear ya. It is just the two images shown on this thread, seem to be of guns you can find now. As you know there are plenty of screw-barreled percussion cap derringers and small gun kits out there. They cost under $200 bucks.
However that little flinter "junk gun" and muff gun shown in THIS theard are SO elegant, with the pan on top, I was just wondering---could someone could post the price for a new one. ...I want one.
However that little flinter "junk gun" and muff gun shown in THIS theard are SO elegant, with the pan on top, I was just wondering---could someone could post the price for a new one. ...I want one.
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Thanks for the compliment - the Twigg flinter and the Nock pair are from my collection. They're certainly not "junk" - both Twigg and Nock were among the top London makers of their day.
As I said - you can't simply go to the gun counter in Wally World or Dick's and pick one up. You have to do your homework and have a bit of luck. Luckily, there are a fair number of them out there, in varying degrees of quality and condition. Price? As is, where is...
As several people have said, nobody that I know of is making production versions of the flintlocks today. You might get someone like Roy Stroh or another maker on this board to build one for you if it sparks his interest, but of course good custom gunmaking doesn't come cheap. You'll probably have to pay as much as for an original, but then again, you'll be 100% certain that it's safe to fire.
As I said - you can't simply go to the gun counter in Wally World or Dick's and pick one up. You have to do your homework and have a bit of luck. Luckily, there are a fair number of them out there, in varying degrees of quality and condition. Price? As is, where is...
As several people have said, nobody that I know of is making production versions of the flintlocks today. You might get someone like Roy Stroh or another maker on this board to build one for you if it sparks his interest, but of course good custom gunmaking doesn't come cheap. You'll probably have to pay as much as for an original, but then again, you'll be 100% certain that it's safe to fire.
Well, it looks like I made just need to make me one of these then or have one made. I sure have alot on my plate but that style has got to be the most blessed small pistol design I have seen. I did email roystroh and ask him for price but haven't heard back yet. The small percussion river boat guns can't hold a candle to those darling flinters. Darn, I wish someone would start producing these again.
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Here's two lots from Greg Martin auctions that sold in 2007...
Link
Lot# 49
High Bid: $550.00
SOLD
Pair Of Box Lock Flintlock Pistols Marked H. Nock, London
.48 caliber, 2 5/8-inch, screw barrels. Walnut grips.
Condition: Fair to good. Rust, pitting and patina. Grips with nicks and wear.
Estimate: 300 - 500
Lot# 50
High Bid: $300.00
SOLD
Ketland & Co., London, Screwbarrel Flintlock Pocket Pistol
.46 caliber smoothbore 3 3/8-inch round screwbarrel. "Ketland/& Co" on left side of boxlock, and "London" on right. Proofmarks on bottom of breech. Walnut grip.
Condition: Good. Gray patina and pitting. Nicks and wear. Chipping from grip at juncture with frame.
Estimate: 300 - 350
As you can see, prices vary widely... Scour auction and dealer inventories, and good luck.
Link
Lot# 49
High Bid: $550.00
SOLD
Pair Of Box Lock Flintlock Pistols Marked H. Nock, London
.48 caliber, 2 5/8-inch, screw barrels. Walnut grips.
Condition: Fair to good. Rust, pitting and patina. Grips with nicks and wear.
Estimate: 300 - 500
Lot# 50
High Bid: $300.00
SOLD
Ketland & Co., London, Screwbarrel Flintlock Pocket Pistol
.46 caliber smoothbore 3 3/8-inch round screwbarrel. "Ketland/& Co" on left side of boxlock, and "London" on right. Proofmarks on bottom of breech. Walnut grip.
Condition: Good. Gray patina and pitting. Nicks and wear. Chipping from grip at juncture with frame.
Estimate: 300 - 350
As you can see, prices vary widely... Scour auction and dealer inventories, and good luck.
