Smooth Bore Accuracy

[BS]

What kind of accuracy are you guys and gals getting out of yours?

I was just going thru my records and found a grouping from 1989 when I first sighted in my 7ga. It's a big smoothbore, and shoots very good for me. One problem is the balls are bore size,.875 a full 7/8". I use heavy levi patches, a short starter and carefully mallet the ball in. I put a big smooth radius on the muzzle and that seems to help, but you have to be careful when loading.

Six out of seven shots are in a 4" group at 50 yds. [off the bench] well kneeling beside the bench works best. The patch tore on the fourth shot, and opened the group up to seven inches. Six good patches and six good shots, a torn patch and a flyer. This is the only size mold that I have, do you think a smaller ball would shoot as well?

What is good accuraccy for smooth bores at 50 yards?

Just though that I would share some of my experences with you.

BS
my web page

 

[bezoar]

You managed to get a bore size ball down the barrel with a thick denim patch? If its bore sized balls, you could technically load using a shot style loading : powder - over powder wad - unpatched round ball- over shot card.

but since the material used in pants has gotten really thin since 89, you could find a crummy pair of pants and hack the leg up for an experiment. But 4 inches at 50 yards is doing pretty good if you ask me.

 

[musketman]

Let's see, 4 inch groups with a brick... :hmm:

Sounds good to me too...

Remember, a smoothbore is not a rifle, people tend to expect them to shoot like one...

What is the weight of the .875 round ball anyway?

I'm guessing well over 900 grains...

You can have a custom mold made, Jeff Tanner makes custom molds for the big guns, 0.850 to 1.050"

 

[BS]

Bezoar.
Should I lube the over the powder wad or use it dry ::

 

[BS]

Musketman,

The ball is a true 7ga. 1000 grains.

7 balls to a pound.

4" grouping is plenty good for the range that I shoot, just wondering what some of the other boys are getting?

 

[musketman]

Bezoar.
Should I lube the over the powder wad or use it dry ::

The hard over powder card is loaded dry...

 

[BS]

Thanks, Musketman!

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Not trying to start an argument Musketman, but I always thought it was a NO NO to load a card wad atop a round ball.
In theory, the ball could over run the wad and perhaps bulge the barrel, especially with thin shotgun barrels. I suppose that gas blow-by around the ball would blow the card out well ahead of the ball but that assumes your over powder and filler wads, if any, allow for lot of blow-by.
I know it was standard practice to use the cartridge paper as a wad atop the musket ball but that is just flimsy paper and with no overpowder wad it would be blown to confetti.
I'm sure that it is a no no for shotgun slug loads for that stated reason. :m2c:

 

[Stumpkiller]

That's an interesting thought. I have used all three of the systems Musketman showed, but now that you bring that up, it does bear consideration.

One thought, the card is 3-D in a round barrel, if it does tip, it won't lie flat against the wall. The curve will tend to keep the ball pushing in the middle and the card would need to curve to catch the ball/wall horizon. That doesn't mean it can't or never did happen, though. Hmmmm.

I know several cases of reloaded modern shells where a single pellet "leaked" out of the star crimp and bulged the barrel. Voids the warranty in most shotguns to shoot reloaded shells for that reason (as well as human nature & error to double-up on the powder, etc.) In one case a friend confessed with a dinged Ithaca SKB and they replaced the barrels anyway because he was honest. He claims the contact told him if he had denied using reloads he would have refused the warranty, so I guess the signs of what happened are pretty obvious.

I'm guessing that in most cases of a card ahead of a bare ball it is just getting blown ahead of the charge column. Pushing a barrel full of air ahead of it makes me thing it curves across the face of the ball and there would not be a tendency for either side to lift so it could tip. Even if it tips, curls and catches, it is only 0.010" thick. The ball would be that much undersize of the bore. But, I wouldn't volunteer to test that by laying one pressed against the wall ahead of a ball in one of my barrels.

It does make one wonder. :shocking:

 

[Beerd2]

BS
does that 7 bore have rear sights?
A consistent 4" at 50 yards sounds darn good to me.
If only I cound do as good.
..

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Stumpy, Circle Fly overshot cards are .025" thick and their over powders, which someone might load over a ball, are .125". You're probably right in speculating that air resistance would tend to wrap the wad around the curvature of the ball but that would make it even more likely to get wedged between ball and barrel wall.
I expect it's one of those things you could get away with hundreds of times but that don't make it a good idea.
I cut my own 12ga. overshot wads out of styrofoam meat trays with a 3/4" punch, they are very light and seem to stick tightly in the bore with no movement under recoil of the other barrel and I think there is little risk with those since the styrofoam is so compressible. All in all I'd prefer a patch with round ball.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Joe, why not just use another fiber wad? I've only done it a few times, but it works and there is no way it can turn itself in the barrel. But I think you are right, the best solution is to use a patch and the proper size ball to begin with. It's faster to load and more accurate as well.

 

[BS]

Breed,

Yes it has a rear sight, but it may be needing a peep, if you know what I mean. I'm beginning to understand why the "old timers" like peeps.
---------------------------------------------------------
I have some over the shot and felt wasds, I tried to shoot buckshot, but never could get much of a group.....anyway, has anyone tried wax over the ball? Would the wax stick to the ball and make it ob-long. 3/16 or 1/4 parifin or bees wax smashed over the top of the ball might work? What do you think?

BS
my web page

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Bare ball is what Bob Spencer advocates for a lot of his shooting.

With my .62 fusil I have come to go sans patch, with the powder, OP card, wad, ball and OS card I get as good as I ever did using a patch.

See link: http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

 

[musketman]

Not trying to start an argument Musketman

I know, don't worry about that... :thumbsup:

I always thought it was a NO NO to load a card wad atop a round ball.
In theory, the ball could over run the wad and perhaps bulge the barrel, especially with thin shotgun barrels.

I am aware of that, but a card on top of the ball is to keep the unpatched ball from moving up the barrel before you shoot, this would cause a much bigger problem than a bulged barrel...

:imo: The thin card will conform to the front sphere of the ball as is speeds down the tube...

If it does get run over by the ball on the way out, there is enough space in the "gap" that a patch would have taken to allow the thin card to pass through...

A .015 patch takes up .030 space in the barrel (.015 on each side of the ball), so a .010 over-shot card will still have .020 clearance to move under a ball if this should ever happen...

:imo: I should also state that I would not use the above method on double barrels because of the recoil moving the second shot while in the tube, a tight fitting patched roundball will hold better...

All in all I'd prefer a patch with round ball.

Truer words were never typed, I agree wholely on the benifits of the patched roundball to all other methods listed...

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Don't know where you get that overshot cards are only .010" thick, that's about like a normal postcard and wouldn't hold much in the barrel. Circle Fly overshots are .025" and you just know that some folks are going to load the .125" overpowders atop the ball.
I guess if you're using the old military load, a .69 cal ball in a .75 cal. barrel it could run over a flock of turkeys on it's way out with no harm done (except maybe to turkeys).
I suggest anyone loading a card over a ball should first try it at the muzzle to see if the ball can slip past the card. Remember that .025 thickness is not just one spot, the card would cover about one third of the inside surface of the barrel.
Also, cardboard is not so compressible as cloth. A cloth patch which measures .020" normal measure will compress to about .010 or less if you crank the mike down really tight as Dutch Shults recomends. (serious micrometer abuse!)
I'd feel safer with a small wad of newspaper or cartridge paper. I assume the reason for skipping the patch is to speed loading so paper cartridge would be a good idea anyway. :m2c:

 

[musketman]

Don't know where you get that overshot cards are only .010" thick,

CoyoteJoe & everyone else:

I mis-spoke myself, that happens from time to time...

You are right, the cards are .025" thick...

 

[BS]

What makes a good fiber wad material? I have some 1/8" heavey cardboard, and used felt for the wad, but it seems too soft. Is there something a little tougher that I Can use, or do I need to buy some wad material, and who sells it?

bs
my web page

 

[berickson]

i always use a card over powder to keep the powder dry and to protect a lubed patch. i've always worried about the card shifting over a concentrated weight (roundball)
all that being said if i ever managed 5 shots in 4" off hand i'd frame the target ::
that's good shooting to this old fool! i generally manage
6-8" off hand @50 yards. that would be bambi accurate but i'm still not sure i would use it as such. i have a 54 robinson rifle that i chase deer with.(4-6" off hand @100 yards). kinda feel i owe it to the game until i get better with my smoothie. :m2c: (cdn=.015c US) ::

 

[robinghewitt]

Alternatively you forget about wads and cards and just hammer a nail through the side of the bore.

You can then drop an undersized ball down the pipe so it sticks on the nail. S'easy ::.