Smooth bore-patches?

[11th corps]

I have always patched my smoothbore round balls but I see Duelist 1954 drops the ball on a powder charge then rams a sheet of paper over the ball.
I have also seen him use tow.
What do you guys use under or over the R/B?

 

[Magungo1066]

I use paper or felt wads. Actually a combo of both usually. I am a historical accuracy nerd so I like to do it the way a New Englander may have in the middle-late 1700s. It is just my luck that my felt/paper load shoots as well as any patched load in my fowler. It behaves like a rifle to 50-60 yards. I buy both of them but when I get around to getting some punches I look forward to making them myself. I would feel comfortable using it on a deer up to 50 yards all day. I can shoot it well further than that, but not consistently enough to be fair to any animal. In all likelihood I would be fine at 60, but with where I hunt, I do not see the need to start stretching my abilities and having the animal pay for it as a result.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Depends on how I feel at the moment, or what the gun prefers either way is correct. If hunting say deer my smooth bore load gets both a paper disc then a felt wad over the powder then a patched round ball then a thin fiber wad over the patched ball, perhaps a bit of over kill but works for me, I suggest you try different loading techniques and see what works best for you. Nothing is written in stone on loading these as every gun and shooter has their own ways of doing things, I would say the old shooters of long-ago loaded powder some kind of wad over the powder then ball and something over the ball.

 

[IanH]

I'm not a traditionalist in the sense that I refuse to use a cloth patch just because nobody bothered to write down that they did/didn't use cloth patches 250 years ago.

Mike can do Mike, none of my business what he does or why, but I have tried "runnin' ball" with a ball only about .010 under bore size and using a square of paper, a felt wad under it, wadded damp paper under/over, and a few other things. I've also made proper paper cartridges (tail UP is far more accurate, by the way, that isn't just a myth), and tried several patch/ball combinations.

What I found is a tight PRB with a wet patch shot the best. Paper cartridge, tail up, worked second best, and all the other things I tried SUCKED. My 20 gauge will group five balls into about three inches at 50 yards pretty reliably using a .600 RB and .018" pillow ticking. With paper cartridges it would group about 5" but have to be swabbed out after every shot. Everything else made a paper plate safe a lot of the time.

I also use 3Fg in my fowler, not that they did in 1750, but it works a lot better for me than the coarser granulations.

 

[Banjoman]

I use wasper nest for over powder and over ball or shot because it seals good and doesn’t smolder or burn. When I don’t have wasp nest I’ll just use green tree leaves which work surprisingly well. The dry brittle ones don’t work.

 

[oldwood]

Used to shoot .75 , and .69 patched r/ball in comp.. Cruzin' through the garage one day , and spied one of the wife's favorite , car chamois. Doused it with liquid lube , and found the chamois patches to be excellent in all my big bore military muskets. She interrogated me about the missing chamois , "and I know nothing". What , ? , ain't a guy allowed to experiment ?

 

[JeffG]

I have always patched my smoothbore round balls but I see Duelist 1954 drops the ball on a powder charge then rams a sheet of paper over the ball.
I have also seen him use tow.
What do you guys use under or over the R/B?

I like cloth patches. It gives me an opportunity to keep the bore lubed, and fouling soft, by way of the lube on the patches.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Used to shoot .75 , and .69 patched r/ball in comp.. Cruzin' through the garage one day , and spied one of the wife's favorite , car chamois. Doused it with liquid lube , and found the chamois patches to be excellent in all my big bore military muskets. She interrogated me about the missing chamois , "and I know nothing". What , ? , ain't a guy allowed to experiment ?

Really don't think your that far off on thin leather patches, seems like I have read somewhere that they were used at times. Actually, thinking once lubed they would expand a bit more than cloth or linen ones resulting in a tighter gas seal.

 

[Ballshooter]

For my 58 cal Kibler colonial smoothbore Powder /corn meal thin shot card .576 bare ball and another thin shot card on top. Shot well @ 65 yards. I also have gotten good results with power/corn meal ,thin shot card ,bare ball and a 1/2" well lubed felt wad on top.

 

[IanH]

I've heard of using green grass balled up for both an under and over ball wad, no fire danger.

That's a good group, Ballshooter. I use cornmeal for my shot loads, it's magic for making good patterns and you can go a lot of shots between cleanings because there's no need to hammer down an over-powder nitro card. Scoop of powder, scoop of cornmeal, scoop of shot, and any old thing to hold it down does the trick. I even make my paper shot cartridges this way: Two short mandrels, a punched carboard partition glued in with stick glue, roll up the rectangular patch cut to meet at two layers, put shot and then cornmeal in one end, soda carton card, fold/glue the end. Other end gets powder and the tail folded. In the field, tear the tail, dump the 3F powder, suck on the tail to get it wet, send down the bore card-end first, one trip with the rammer. Cylinder bore 20 holds a 3' pattern to 35 yards and plenty good for birds to 40.

I forgot to mention, I tried 2F and 2F with the previously mentioned ball combinations, I think 2F does better when not using a tight, lubed, cloth patch. I'm too cheap to try leather but if I were to experiment, there would be a good number of patches available from a worn-out pair of those cloth/suede work gloves.

 

[11th corps]

Thanks for the responses everyone.
I plan to shoot my n/w trade gun tomorrow at the range, probably will stick with the lubed patches for now.

 

[Rendezvous Valley Trading]

I have tried all sorts of combinations in my .62. Most accurate by far for mine is lubed 15 thousands patch and round ball. Now IanH has me thinking about cartridges dang it...

 

[French Colonial]

My Caywood French fusil shoots best with a .010 spit patched RB, but there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.

Whatever works for you.

 

[Brokennock]

There are a large number of posts and topics on this,,,, plenty of reading available on the subject.
Many insist a "tight" patched ball is the only accuracy producing method.
The worst groups my TVM Early Virginia smoothrifle has ever shot was with a tight, and a moderately tight patched ball. As soon as I loosened the load groups shrank, a lot, like down to 3 or 4 inches at 50 yards (.595 ball with .010 patch, bore .615). Groups shrank more, becoming more consistent when I ditched the patch and loaded; powder, thin card, lubed felt wad, .610 ball, thin card. 3 inches consistently at 50 yards, sometimes less,,,, much less at 25 yards.
Not that in these discussions many people claim something "shoots good/well/best," and is the "best," or even "the only" way,,, but never post what their standard is.

Barely acceptable. IF, I throw out the 1st two shots. Tested at 50,,, no good,,, which I expected.

Hmm,,, might be getting somewhere. This load performed well at 50, but I still thought it could be improved. And after reading many reports of good shooting with wads and no patch, decided to try it seeing as this looser load worked well.

Sights still needed some regulation for height,,, but these are the groups I want at 25 before I test a load at 50,,, it performed well there and is my standard hunting load with that gun.

Progress with the Fusil des Chase. Could have been better at 50, but was acceptable. More tweaking in progress.

 

[Cruzatte]

I have always patched my smoothbore round balls but I see Duelist 1954 drops the ball on a powder charge then rams a sheet of paper over the ball.
I have also seen him use tow.
What do you guys use under or over the R/B?

I have been using a 5/8" circular leather wad over the powder, then the ball, and a moist paper wad over the ball with pretty good results in my TOW fusil de chasse.

Yeah, yeah...I know. It didn't happen without pictures. I'll put some up in a few days.

 

[tenngun]

Pathed ball, and bare ball, both could make meat

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Right now I'm using 70gr 2f and a .595 ball with .010 patch for fairly accurate performance at 50yds (keeping 6 rounds in a 5" target). I desire to continue experimenting with larger diameter ball and no patch.

 

[Maven]

The answer to this is to experiment, changing one variable at a time until you get the accuracy you want (and that doesn't always mean using a patched RB). E.g., in my GRF 20ga. NW Trade Gun, a patched RB is the most accurate even with as little as 65gr. FFg. Tow wads fore & aft also work, but with substantially greater powder charges. I've attached a 25 yd. target shot kneeling with my right arm on the bench using three slightly different diameter RB's that I cast, but from different moulds. They're all patched with either .014" or .018" pillow ticking lubed with 1 Ballistol : 6 water. Powder charge was 70gr. FFg. Edit: The RB's were ~597" (Tanner), .598" (Lee), and ~.603" (Lyman).

 

[PathfinderNC]

I can hit a 6” gong at 20 yards with an unpatched round ball in my .50 smoothbore pistol (.495 ball)
My 20 gauge Fusil de Chasse likes a patched .595 round ball.
It’s all in the gun.

 

[Rendezvous Valley Trading]

My most accurate load. English fowling piece made by me. 70 grains 2F. .015 patch lubed with my own beeswax olive oil lube. .600 round ball. The explosion is a very outdated can of pork and beans! About 50 yards. Had a blast!