Smooth rifle???

[Cattywompuss]

I know we all call them that now, but is it because they are shaped like a rifle and have accoutrements of a rifle, or because so many were smooth by the end of their life by wear or reboring? Or all of the above? I have a gun I would call a smooth rifle, if only because everything except the smooth .60 bore is rifle-ish.

If this should be in the smoothbore forum, moderators do what you must.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The first theory was that they were once rifles that were later bored out to smoothbore, because the wall thickness would not permit a deeper boring to restore rifling. Then it was found that some of them in collections were made that way..., look like a rifle but are smoothbore. Some folks think the latter were owned by men whose eyesight had faded over time, and they bought one final gun to suit them later in life..., but I think it was then found that some younger men were recorded as buying them. Of course, we have no idea if the smooth-rifle was bought by a young man with eyes that were poor, or if the item was bought as a gift for an older person....

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

Then of course, at the shorter eastern hunting distances the performance on game was little different if the bore was smooth or rifled. The hunter had the choice of using ball or shot. Once the game became squirrels or rabbits, shot would have been preferred. Using a smooth rifle made the hunting tool a generalist tool, not a specialist. To my knowledge, no one ever wrote in a journal of their decision to buy a smooth rifle or a rifle. This does appear to be an eastern practice. The sales records of gunsmiths and advertisements of gunsmiths in St. Louis did not include smooth rifles. Rifles, yes and shotguns, but not smooth rifles.

 

[tenngun]

We call them smooth rifles. And no, not all known today were rebored smooth. Back in the day they were called ‘rifle mounted fusils.’

 

[oldwood]

Wonder if some of the woodsmen in the 1700's that were known to dust Indians in pursuit of them , and reloading on-the-run, used smooth rifle guns.????? There are too many stories , not to wonder . Lewis Wetzel is a classic example. One of his examples told of him shooting two of the three Indians persuing him , and finally , the remaining Indian said , something like , this man always has loaded gun , no follow any more,

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Is a "smooth rifle" just a smooth bore with both front and rear sights?

 

[Cattywompuss]

Is a "smooth rifle" just a smooth bore with both front and rear sights?

My smooth rifle only has a front, but it has a patchbox, cheekpiece, trigger guard, and lines of a longrifle. 1/3 octagon to round barrel.

 

[George]

A few mentions of smooth rifles from the 18th-century Pennsylvania Gazette, ads for sale, runaways, etc.:

Sept. 1739: "Took with him a smooth Rifle Gun..."
Jan. 1769: "....took with him a smooth rifle gun..."
Feb. 1773: [for sale] A QUANTITY of this country and German made RIFLES, both cut and smooth bores, in the best manner;"
May 1775: "They had and took away with them a country square barreled, smooth bore gun, rifle stocked..."

This topic is like Whack-A-Mole. no amount of evidence will squelch it.

Spence

 

[Brokennock]

Just what the label implies. Smooth bored barrel with rifle style stock architecture and furniture, including a rear sight.
Very versatile. Unless one takes a lot of flying game, even one's small game shooting with shot is done in more rifle like manner, squirrels, turkeys, even rabbits, the gun is most often handled more like a rifle even though shot is used. The heavier architecture absorbed more recoil from heavier roundball loads or heavy shot loads.
I have no doubt that some smoothrifles were once rifled then bored out smooth, but, there is enough evidence of guns being manufactured and advertised this way to make me doubt that the majority of original smoothrifles are reforestation.
Larger game in the east got scarce pretty fast, especially post 1800 or so, it would make total sense to want to be able to use shot but still retain the advantages of rifle stocking and sights, as well as the possibility of throwing a decent size lead ball when the need arose.

 

[Brokennock]

This topic is like Whack-A-Mole. no amount of evidence will squelch it

Lmao

 

[smoothshooter]

Then of course, at the shorter eastern hunting distances the performance on game was little different if the bore was smooth or rifled. The hunter had the choice of using ball or shot. Once the game became squirrels or rabbits, shot would have been preferred. Using a smooth rifle made the hunting tool a generalist tool, not a specialist. To my knowledge, no one ever wrote in a journal of their decision to buy a smooth rifle or a rifle. This does appear to be an eastern practice. The sales records of gunsmiths and advertisements of gunsmiths in St. Louis did not include smooth rifles. Rifles, yes and shotguns, but not smooth rifles.

Having owned one in .54 for over 20 years, and firing it well over 2,000 times, I can tell you that they are easier to clean or pull a load on.
The thicker barrel walls should provide an additional margin of safety for shooting multiple full-caliber ball loads in front of heavy powder charges.

 

[Cattywompuss]

A few mentions of smooth rifles from the 18th-century Pennsylvania Gazette, ads for sale, runaways, etc.:

Sept. 1739: "Took with him a smooth Rifle Gun..."
Jan. 1769: "....took with him a smooth rifle gun..."
Feb. 1773: [for sale] A QUANTITY of this country and German made RIFLES, both cut and smooth bores, in the best manner;"
May 1775: "They had and took away with them a country square barreled, smooth bore gun, rifle stocked..."

This topic is like Whack-A-Mole. no amount of evidence will squelch it.

Spence

I would say your evidence squelched it. Thanks for it! It was honest inquiry on my part, not satisfied by the search feature.

 

[Cattywompuss]

Just what the label implies. Smooth bored barrel with rifle style stock architecture and furniture, including a rear sight.
Very versatile. Unless one takes a lot of flying game, even one's small game shooting with shot is done in more rifle like manner, squirrels, turkeys, even rabbits, the gun is most often handled more like a rifle even though shot is used. The heavier architecture absorbed more recoil from heavier roundball loads or heavy shot loads.
I have no doubt that some smoothrifles were once rifled then bored out smooth, but, there is enough evidence of guns being manufactured and advertised this way to make me doubt that the majority of original smoothrifles are reforestation.
Larger game in the east got scarce pretty fast, especially post 1800 or so, it would make total sense to want to be able to use shot but still retain the advantages of rifle stocking and sights, as well as the possibility of throwing a decent size lead ball when the need arose.

Heavier architecture is right enough for mine. The wrist is 50% thicker than my slimmer longrifles and the butt of the stock very thick. It isn't fun to handle like the magic wand qualities of slimmer guns, but it is certainly fit to purpose.

Your remark about shooting at small game being more rifle-like even with a smoothbore reminded me of a day of failed deer hunting when I was young with my cousin and several older relatives. We were heading home through the woods in two vehicles when someone came over the radio "Squirrel! Squirrel!" Four men and two boys sprang from two trucks and drew down on one squirrel.

Shots rang out left and right! A veritable fusillade of various sized shot shattered the tree tops, including 00 buck. The valiant squirrel was nigh unto his hole in a long-since amputated lower limb when a single #9 pellet caught him and he fell, grasping like Mufasa falling into the Wildebeest. But Mister Squirrel wasn't done until my cousin Darrell approached the wounded tree rat with a buck knife to send him to his eternal rest.

Don't know why, but that simple comment reminded me of the occurrence 25 years ago.

 

[oldwood]

Thanks guys for the 18th century smooth rifle validation information.......... oldwood

 

[sheba]

Here s an original English smooth rifle in 65 cal .It has a double leaf sight , an engraved lock with a tiger hunting scene and the vendor says it shows no evidence of being bored smooth from a rifle.Probably meant for hunting in India or Africa

 

[tenngun]

A few mentions of smooth rifles from the 18th-century Pennsylvania Gazette, ads for sale, runaways, etc.:

Sept. 1739: "Took with him a smooth Rifle Gun..."
Jan. 1769: "....took with him a smooth rifle gun..."
Feb. 1773: [for sale] A QUANTITY of this country and German made RIFLES, both cut and smooth bores, in the best manner;"
May 1775: "They had and took away with them a country square barreled, smooth bore gun, rifle stocked..."

This topic is like Whack-A-Mole. no amount of evidence will squelch it.

Spence

No amount of evidence will squelch what?

 

[tenngun]

Is a "smooth rifle" just a smooth bore with both front and rear sights?

No, rear sights were often put on fusils and Fowling pieces. The Carolina type trade gun came with a rear sight.
A smooth rifle came with rifle architecture.
Now today many smoothbore competition won’t permit rear sights. But that’s to make a level playing field, not to reflect historic conditions.

 

[Rudyard]

I once had a Lancaster double BL rifle of 1864 Smooth bored no grouves just oval bores .& Govt adopted his plan for the Engineers . I brought the rifle back from India .The firearms officer looked down it & said" Its a smoothbore as far as we are concerned " so no variation on a Firearms certificate required .Now its only needed if you plan to shoot it otherwise its just an obsolete collecters item.
Rudyard

 

[Packrat]

Some of the big names in European rifle making, Griswold, Holland and Holland, to name a couple, felt that a smooth rifle for dangerous game, Lions, tigers, etc, were better suited for the job as ranges were usually very close. Large calibers were necessary for knock down

 

[AV8R]

The first theory was that they were once rifles that were later bored out to smoothbore, because the wall thickness would not permit a deeper boring to restore rifling. Then it was found that some of them in collections were made that way..., look like a rifle but are smoothbore. Some folks think the latter were owned by men whose eyesight had faded over time, and they bought one final gun to suit them later in life..., but I think it was then found that some younger men were recorded as buying them. Of course, we have no idea if the smooth-rifle was bought by a young man with eyes that were poor, or if the item was bought as a gift for an older person....

LD

I believe I have seen descriptions from that time period using the term "smooth rifle" as another term for fowler (i.e., ~20 ga long arm) used with both shot and roundball.