Smooth rifle???

[Gordoncourtney]

Thank you you are a gentleman I guess we learn from each other and it gets more and more interesting I wish you well I should say. “ happy to meet, sorry to part, but happy to meet again”. Love and best wishes from uk

 

[Ajgall]

When I built my last rifle, I went the smooth rifle route because where I hunt I won’t be taking any long shots at deer that would be hindered by not having a rifled barrel, and I take a lot more shots at squirrels and rabbits where I wanted to shoot shot. I can’t prove it historically, but I imagine some people in the past would have done the same.

 

[Brokennock]

@Ajgall raises another good point in the debate between having a smoothrifle as a one gun for all muzzleloader or having a fowling piece for shot and a rifle for round ball game.
What type of game shooting does one do the most of?
Often we read of hunters choosing the smoothbore for it's versatility and because the area they hunt doesn't offer much deer shooting past 50 to 75 yards. Okay. That is my situations too. But, I also have a lot more shooting opportunities with shot than with roundball. I have many months of squirrel season with a fairly generous bag limit, a few months of pheasant season with a generous bag limit, a little over a month of spring turkey and a bag limit of 5 bearded birds, one month of fall turkey with a limit of 3 either sex.
But, while with our new regulations I have a few days more than a month of shotgun deer season in during which I can use my flintlock now,,, I am only allowed 1 deer off state land, then a 10 day muzzleloading season and again only 1 deer, and let's face it, by that point those deer have been pushed around and harrased by archers, shotgun hunters, small game hunters for months as well as the usual non-hunting recreational folks in the woods....

I know some thick places offering the same limits on shot distances for deer in other states where deer bag limits are higher and so are your chances and opportunities to shoot more than one deer. If I lived there I probably would more strongly consider having 2 guns and one of them being a rifle.
Around here, with its limited use, a rifle just doesn't seem practical, a nice fowling piece is great and a thing of beauty and artistry but if most game using shot is taken in a rifle like manner instead of on the wing, again, it doesn't seem the best way to spend one's gun money. But, a smoothrifle,,,,,,,

 

[rich pierce]

I’ll just say that developing a load that will shoot into 3-4” at 50 yards in a smoothbore is no “gimme”. Anyone wanting to shoot deer at 75 yards with a smoothbore is going to need a ton of practice and load development. If your shots are 40-50 yards tops then most guys can kill a standing deer broadside with a round ball in a smoothbore, shooting offhand, 80% of the time. It’s the 20% of misses that will cause audible, unholy exclamations.

 

[Cattywompuss]

@Ajgall raises another good point in the debate between having a smoothrifle as a one gun for all muzzleloader or having a fowling piece for shot and a rifle for round ball game.
What type of game shooting does one do the most of?
Often we read of hunters choosing the smoothbore for it's versatility and because the area they hunt doesn't offer much deer shooting past 50 to 75 yards. Okay. That is my situations too. But, I also have a lot more shooting opportunities with shot than with roundball. I have many months of squirrel season with a fairly generous bag limit, a few months of pheasant season with a generous bag limit, a little over a month of spring turkey and a bag limit of 5 bearded birds, one month of fall turkey with a limit of 3 either sex.
But, while with our new regulations I have a few days more than a month of shotgun deer season in during which I can use my flintlock now,,, I am only allowed 1 deer off state land, then a 10 day muzzleloading season and again only 1 deer, and let's face it, by that point those deer have been pushed around and harrased by archers, shotgun hunters, small game hunters for months as well as the usual non-hunting recreational folks in the woods....

I know some thick places offering the same limits on shot distances for deer in other states where deer bag limits are higher and so are your chances and opportunities to shoot more than one deer. If I lived there I probably would more strongly consider having 2 guns and one of them being a rifle.
Around here, with its limited use, a rifle just doesn't seem practical, a nice fowling piece is great and a thing of beauty and artistry but if most game using shot is taken in a rifle like manner instead of on the wing, again, it doesn't seem the best way to spend one's gun money. But, a smoothrifle,,,,,,,

Being the gent what started this thread, I have to admit that I bought my smooth rifle primarily for turkey and small game season. It was the only smoothbore in the estate of 30 or more muzzleloaders and I went to visit the collection with a purpose. As such, I have four Rifle Rifles and a smooth rifle instead of a fowler.
Missed out on a fowler at a pawnshop after having already bought two rifles from that particular separate collection. So while my smoove(as we say in the urban South) might have been a buck and/or ball gun 250 years ago, I intend it to mainly be a shotgun. But I am about to order some .590 balls from TOW for fun.

 

[Notchy Bob]

@Ajgall raises another good point in the debate between having a smoothrifle as a one gun for all muzzleloader or having a fowling piece for shot and a rifle for round ball game.
What type of game shooting does one do the most of?

This somehow reminded me of the buck-and-ball guns from back in the day, which could actually be loaded with shot and a ball. Merrill Lindsay gave the definitive statement on these in The New England Gun (p.2): "The New England solution was the buck-and-ball gun with a heavy enough barrel to withstand the pressures created by a large amount of lead to be pushed out of the barrel. The hunter with a single shot could dispose of any kind of game that presented itself. Ideally this would be a moose surrounded by pigeons."

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Just what the doctor ordered. See others at Holts auction. Uk I missed straight rifling first time I read it. Unusual Looks ok

10-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-BARRELLED SHOT & BALL GUN, UNSIGNED, no visible serial number,
circa 1850 and of English manufacture, with heavy octagonal 30 1/2in. barrel cut with straight rifling, the top-flat marked 'D.S.' over 'D.I.', small blade fore-sight, no provision for rear-sight, plain top-tang, simplistic border and scroll engraved bar-action lock, walnut half-stock with chequered full pistol-grip, iron furniture including patchbox to the right hand side of butt, single barrel key and replacement iron ramrod (missing one ramrod pipe from under-rib).



Please click HERE to view Terms & Conditions. Please note all Lots are listed in accordance with UK Law, for overseas buyers, please ensure you are familiar with your relevant local firearms and customs regulations before bidding.

Estimate £300-500.

( remember shipping to usa can be £700 for paperwork Holts will do it via agent. Remember add around %30 to winning bid for buyers commission and tax Place a max bid and computer bids for you Holts are extremely trustworthy and honest )

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I was forgetting as it got rifling, I was going to put in a bid. twist or straight , rifling is rifling. I can buy it obsolete S58 no problem. But it’s got rifling be it straight so it cannot be used as an S2 shotgun police cert. and there isn’t a hope in hell of getting an S1 certificate as you could then shoot it as a ball rifle in your local woods. That’s a no no as far as the police are concerned. Another wall hanger I guess

 

[Britsmoothy]

I was forgetting as it got rifling, I was going to put in a bid. twist or straight , rifling is rifling. I can buy it obsolete S58 no problem. But it’s got rifling be it straight so it cannot be used as an S2 shotgun police cert. and there isn’t a hope in hell of getting an S1 certificate as you could then shoot it as a ball rifle in your local woods. That’s a no no as far as the police are concerned. Another wall hanger I guess

You could shoot it at an approved range for target shooting. One would need to be a member of a club too.
It is a shame the law makers forgot about straight rifling.

 

[Feltwad]

I was forgetting as it got rifling, I was going to put in a bid. twist or straight , rifling is rifling. I can buy it obsolete S58 no problem. But it’s got rifling be it straight so it cannot be used as an S2 shotgun police cert. and there isn’t a hope in hell of getting an S1 certificate as you could then shoot it as a ball rifle in your local woods. That’s a no no as far as the police are concerned. Another wall hanger I guess

I have entered a smooth bore rifle in Holts December sale it is a 50 calibre makers name is George Dempster a good clean octantal barrel and a sound gun
Feltwad

 

[Gordoncourtney]

You could shoot it at an approved range for target shooting. One would need to be a member of a club too.
It is a shame the law makers forgot about straight rifling.

Full bore & ML shooting clubs a bit naff if any around Surrey But Norfolk is great for clubs as my mate lives up there At 78 I am content with my 50 yard garden range Prefer rough shooting to anything I grew up in times You got a shotgun licence from the post office We should have come in line with France under EU no licence needed for BP guns. But it is a green and pleasant land warmed by the gulf stream. Be happy with what you have. Such is life

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I have entered a smooth bore rifle in Holts December sale it is a 50 calibre makers name is George Dempster a good clean octantal barrel and a sound gun
Feltwad

I went through the list again this morning and did not see a George Dempster , I’ll look again later, have you got the lot number I guess it’s percussion ????? I just paid out a bundle on my 50 ft catamaran mooring so my card is heavenly overdrawn, to put it mildly However I did not get excited about anything much. A flintlock rifle would have been nice but nothing. And I got 4 double rifles already. In fact quite happy with my collection. Too many sharps carbines around and no heavy rifles , that’s on my list a sharps buffalo rifle but a lot are rattle boxes only fit for wall hangers, Better get a new Shilo but S1 Their Hammersmith auctions were just a short train ride away now Norfolk is a 360 mile long trip , I pop up there sometime to see Alex my name sake and Nick and his wife also , but I do miss the big display of guns in London and meeting so many friends almost a Masonic club if you know what I mean I wish you well So for me at 78 it’s popping away on my 50 yard short Siberia garden range with a pcp Scorpio bsa but it gets boring ha ha ha My brother Andy was secretary or something of the ML and I was a member till I moved to Nigeria for a few years. Now I don’t get answers to emails and their lovely Bisely club house which Andy built is derelict since 2012 great pitty. Nothings the same it’s called “ the challenge of change” are you up to it !!!!! Haha. I wish you all well

il add not a great 50 yard target but it was a windy morning. But I can out shoot a shotgun anyway unless loaded with bb for foxes. Knocks heads off squirrels and rabbits great British engineering

I wish you well

 

[Feltwad]

Yes I remember Andy Courtney when he was in the MLAGB and so will other members of this forum , I am not sure but I think He joined the MLAGB after me ,I joined in 1963. I am not a rifle shooter more for game and shotgun the MLAGB is more for rifle now .
There is no list for my stuff out yet at Holts most will be in the sealed bids I entered 16 lots plus a punt gun have been slimming down my collection
Feltwad

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Ahh I have my ups and downs with Andy. In a Down period Even Mole Ben had enough of him. He was kicked off , out voted, even,ha ha

Andy was really angry the way the ML s treated him. , especially as Bisely hut was down to him , or whatever as secretary so I gather? Nice crowd over there but I never rejoined me more shotgun then .

Mole 84 was my oldest friend from the 1960s he was around my place a few days before he died we were at Ham and Petersham pistol shooters

I was shooting with Andy at Polesdon Lacy NT till the manager refused to renew our very long lease. Families go like this not seen Andy in 8 years all over this and that , don’t bother me and I am the eldest in the family Andy must have joined around 1971 I think , when we used to meet at a pub in Chertsey John ????? Pushed him forward for better things at Warwick. Time goes by I wish you well. Ps There was a guy that sold flint lock actions lost touch , saw him last at the gun fair, at the clubhouse around 2012

 

[Pilgrim]

A few mentions of smooth rifles from the 18th-century Pennsylvania Gazette, ads for sale, runaways, etc.:

Sept. 1739: "Took with him a smooth Rifle Gun..."
Jan. 1769: "....took with him a smooth rifle gun..."
Feb. 1773: [for sale] A QUANTITY of this country and German made RIFLES, both cut and smooth bores, in the best manner;"
May 1775: "They had and took away with them a country square barreled, smooth bore gun, rifle stocked..."

This topic is like Whack-A-Mole. no amount of evidence will squelch it.

Spence

Thanks for sharing this, I’m considering a smooth rifle 54 flintlock kit for my next bp gun.