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Smoothbore as first ML- In over my head?

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stevekl

32 Cal.
Joined
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I found this kit:

Northwest Trade Gun

at Track Of The Wolf. Now, I have never fired a muzzle loading weapon so I am 100% new to this. My question is, am I getting in over my head? It seems to me that (and correct me if I'm wrong) that most people start out muzzle loading by buying an in-line rifle, or a percussion rifle. I despise in-lines (no offense to anyone meant) and although I think the Lymans GPR (for example) is cool, I really really want a smoothbore flintlock, and I can't explain why.

So is this kit too 'advanced' for me? I'm not worried about putting it together; I'm confident I can handle that. but there's so much to learn about flintlock smoothbores that it seems daunting.

If I DO get one, I would plan on plinking and maybe skeet shooting.
 
on the bright side, you're gettin a very versatile weapon! on a brighter side [strike]if..[/strike] after you shoot a smoothie, shootin a rifle with 2 sites will be a cake walk! flintlocks are flintlocks,,gettin the aiming/sight right would be your biggest hurdle..rest is about same figure out loads patches etc.. but if i could only have one, it'd be a smoothie! great choice i think! good luck!! :thumbsup: """"I would plan on plinking and maybe skeet shooting.""" you can do anything with a smoothie!!
 
Only smoothbore I have is a small bore pistol. I shot shot in it with wasp nest for wadding. Haven't dusted anything with it yet. I thought about a gun like you want, but not enought small game to hunt here any more,rabbits. I use the 32 for squirrels. Dilly
 
Personally I would be more concerned about putting the kit together :surrender: , but if you are confident that you can assemble it ok, everything else will be a piece of cake. All it will take is practice, practice, practice. Sounds like a good excuse to get to the range and do some shootin :thumbsup:
 
I think that your choice is a good one for a first timer. Unless you have the tools necessary, I would suggest you have them install the breech plug for you. Underlugs and sight are easily soldered on. Let us know your decision. Emery
 
If you like the gun and are confident that you can put the kit together, go for it.
 
If your handy, and can put that gun together? Do It!

I just got a Trade Gun in Trade :grin: Go figure!

I think the trade gun is one of the best looking smoothies, and it is pretty light compared to some of my other pieces.

Welcome to the club!
 
Well you might be in a little over your head but with a focused effort you'll quickly rise and walk on the surface. :rotf:

Salt
 
There are several dvds out that take you through the guilding of a gun, along with the Tutorial on this forum from Mike Brooks which gives you a lot of information and help to do it right. With the expert help you can get from this forum, I can't think that any kit you might get can't be built, if you put in the time, do the reading, and ask questions before you guess about doing something and end up screwing something up! It helps if you have a few skills and past experience using tools, and have some basic tools in your workshop. Most of the kits from places like Track are going to take a lot more time to complete than something from a factory, where you only have to remove a little wood to do final fitting of parts to stock, and then do a lot of shaping and sanding of the stock before finishing the stock. Plan on a kit build to require 200 hours or more for your first one, half that for the second, and less and less for each subsequent build you do. There is a learning curve, but you barely finish one gun before you want to begin another. Its a disease, but the nicest way to go I know! :youcrazy: :thumbsup:
 
It seems daunting at first because it is a bit different, but it really isn't that hard to learn to use a flint lock smoothbore. And it is very rewarding. I say go for it and welcome to the world of the holy black! :hatsoff:
 
Three hundred years ago your first gun would be a flintlock, and very likely a smoothbore. Same thing with the natives. I'm sure you can learn as well as our forebearers. You'll be fine, and we're right hear to help. And chuckle a bit.
 
stevekl:
I think that if you want a smoothbore flintlock then go for it.

I do think that you need to be concerned about putting it together right now rather than shooting it.
Building one of these guns from the box of parts that the various suppliers sell is not a walk in the park. There is a lot to learn and although we here at the forum will be more than happy to help some things you will have to do take careful thought and time.

When your gun is just about finished, by all means ask questions about shooting it. The best place to do that is on the special forum that deals with smoothbores.
 
Zonie said:
stevekl:
I think that if you want a smoothbore flintlock then go for it.

I do think that you need to be concerned about putting it together right now rather than shooting it.
Building one of these guns from the box of parts that the various suppliers sell is not a walk in the park. There is a lot to learn and although we here at the forum will be more than happy to help some things you will have to do take careful thought and time.

I have to aggree with Zonie and everyone else encouraging you to go with the smoothbore. They are a hoot to shoot. Lots of fun. Tons of fun.

However, I do want you to be aware that Tracks kit is a collection of parts that need to be chiseled, drilled, filed, sanded, soldered, stained and finished. Also be aware that the inlets on 90% inlet stocks can be harder to finsh than inletting from scratch.

IMHO, Chambers kits go together much easier than Tracks. Since higher quality does cost more to produce, Chambers kits are more expensive.

I don't intend to discourage you, just to make you aware that these kits are not simple assembly and finish, in-the-white types of kits.

I also suggest that you beg, borrow, or buy a coupla DVD's on gunbuilding so you will have an idea of what you are getting into.

Several DVD's on building ML guns can be rented on SmartFlix
http://smartflix.com/store/category/75/Kits-Scratchbuilt

IMHO, better to rent and decide you do, or don't want to tackle a kit than to invest much more into buying those videos, not to mention the kit.

Another, less expensive option for your first kit is one from Early Rustic. Depending on you level of skill with wood and metal work, you may opt for a simple assemble and finish, in-the-white type of "kit".
http://www.earlyrusticarms.com/pricesanddescriptions.htm

Based on my 40,or so, years of experience, the style of stock on the Kentucy barn gun, the type G tradegun, or the militia musket seem to be more comfortable for most people to shoot well.

Good luck,
J.D.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
stevekl said:
My question is, am I getting in over my head? It seems to me that (and correct me if I'm wrong) that most people start out muzzle loading by buying an in-line rifle, or a percussion rifle.

Can't speak for others, but my very first gun of ANY kind was a flintlock, so I started muzzleloading with a flintlock, at age 14. Of course that was many years ago and no one had invented inlines yet. If I could handle a flintlock at 14, I'm sure you can do it now. :grin: You'll learn the basics pretty fast, and then spend the rest of your life learning even more about them!

I just converted a rifle to smoothbore, I find it a much more versatile gun, but I’m just beginning to learn more than the basics of making it go bang and hitting what you aim at. Lots to learn, but that’s the fun part! :thumbsup:
 
i'll go with the consensus, especially, paul &jd. ... DVDs are nice, but i get more out of books (luddite? who?? ME!!???) so i'd urge you to spring for either Shumway's or Alexander's books, both of which can be had at Track of the Wolf, and both of which will more than save you thier purchase price in ruined parts and cut fingers. (not to mention colourful language and wasted time repeating steps)

good luck with you project!

msw
 
Hey Steve
Track does say very clearly "Our easiest kit".

This reminds me of the fact that the overall design of the Muskets/Trade guns were intended to be inexpensive and easily manufactured in large quantities.
(Compare the butt plate on a trade gun to that of a fine Kentucky rifle and you'll see what I mean :grin:)

All in all, I say do your homework, ask plenty of questions and know what you're getting into.

But I think with time and diligence you should be okay
 
MSW said:
i'll go with the consensus, especially, paul &jd. ... DVDs are nice, but i get more out of books (luddite? who?? ME!!???) so i'd urge you to spring for either Shumway's or Alexander's books, both of which can be had at Track of the Wolf, and both of which will more than save you thier purchase price in ruined parts and cut fingers. (not to mention colourful language and wasted time repeating steps)

IMHO, the books are a necessity for someone building a gun, and I do recommend that Steve buy at least one of the books prior to actual construction. However, IMHO, the DVD's give someone who has no idea of what it takes to build a gun from a parts kit a pretty good idea of the complexity and relationships of parts and skills required to assemble a parts kit. Besides, the DVD's can be very educational and sometimes fun to watch...at least those that don't put the viewer to sleep.

I'm sure Steve can successfully assemble, finish, and fire any "kit" he might choose. It ain't rocket science, but it does take some knowledge of the realationships of the component parts and some skill with hand tools....and some support from those who have gone before. IMHO, If I can do it, anyone can do it.

As mentioned earlier, take the time to weight as many variables as possible. Ask as many questions as you can think of. Look at as many "kits" that you can find and evaluate the pros and cons of each.

A few questions you might want to ask yourself are;

1. Do I have, or can I learn the skills to build a parts kit. Again, If I can do it, anyone can do it.

2. What is my budget?

3. How important is historical correctness, and what will I use this gun for? Hunting? Rendezvousing? Reenacting? Or, just informal shooting?

4. If you think you might become involved in reenacting, what time period? A gun from an earlier period is more correct than one from a later period.

5. Which style of gun do you like?

And one more thought, If you want to build a kit gun to save money, you need to consider the expense of any tools and finishing supplies. Brown or blueing for the barrel, and the necessities for application. Sandpaper, stain and finish for the stock, and assorted accessories necessary for application. Also consider a lock finished "as cast," meaning a slightly to somewhat rough finish on all of the internal parts that need to be polished,tuned and reassembled...and the tools necessesary for that.

IMHO, its less expensive to buy a ready made gun than buy all of the tools and assorted items necessary to complete a parts kit.

If you like to work with your hands and build things, then go for it. If you simply want to save money, building a single gun is like pouring money into an old car. You will never get your investment back.

If, however, you have most of the tools, a good workbench complete with a good vise, an assortment of chisels, rasps, files, sand paper, hack saw, propane torch, drill and assorted drillbits, and several other tools I can't think of at the moment, then you might save some bucks...maybe.

Good Luck,
J.D.
 
This is perhaps the easiest smoothbore to build. I shot one with a 36 inch barrel for years. Brass tacks and all. ( Mountain man phase )The only problem I had with the trade guns due to the lack of drop on the stock I had to get way down on the stock to find my sight picture. After some long matches sometimes my right cheekbone felt like I had gone 20 with Ali :bow:
 
I want to just say thanks for the replies and encouragement. I'm about 99% sure I want to buy this, it's just that there's some paychecks between me and it.

And the reason I say building the kit doesn't scare me? Well, it does. but it just so happens that I know someone of the 'dad' persuasion who has the tools and know-how to pretty much put anything together. So if I can convince him to help, I see no problems at all.

I'm also getting interested in bullet casting. I bought a RCBS lead pot and modified a turkey fryer, but haven't had the chance to melt any of the bullets I dug up from the range.

Again, thanks for the replies, and I'll keep this thread updated.

Edit: I do have a question or two. What looks to be the hardest part about building this kit? Is it the inletting? The soldering?

Is plain BLO a period correct finish for the wood?

What's a period correct finish for the metal? Leave it bare, or browning, or what?
 
I built one and there were a few tricky parts. Drilling the angled hole for the tang bolt was one. Soldering the barrel lugs and sight and getting them on straight was another. Practice on the barrel lugs first, they don't show. None of it was too dificult, just take your time and ask questions when in doubt.
 
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