Smoothbore hunt?

[Waterboyark]

We have a hunt coming up at a game reserve. Thinking maybe we might keep these flinters as an interesting fresh option.

Mine is a 20 bore double SXS flinter. Made by J.T. Phillips (not J.C) who even made the barrels by ribbing them together and regulated them. It had never been fired. My buddy bough this Pedersoli modified Bess "Trade gun" just like it sets. Has lots of character. We benched the guns to see what they could do in accuracy and for hunting power. Offhand is another issue altogether as it's real easy to flinch.

If it stimulates any constructive conversation I welcome it. I'm NO expert just energetic and wanting something new. I have shot black powder arms for about 35 yrs.

*I know FFFg is not for larger caliber guns but it was all we could find. Smaller granules/less airspace means more powder for volume and higher pressures. Our guns are deemed stronger and adequate for the shooting we did and we have no need to go higher charges. It was a calculated decision on our part to use it in this instance. We used moderate tight balls and well lubricated Ox-yoke patches.

 

[asbrown]

Sounds and looks as if your ready to go. As a side note, you can cut down on the pan flash by using less priming powder. I was really surprised when I bought a pan charger and saw how little powder 4gr actually is. I'd been using twice that much just eyeballing it.

 

[roundball]

*I know FFFg is not for larger caliber guns but it was all we could find. Smaller granules/less airspace means more powder for volume and higher pressures.

Just as an aside, to most people's surprise it turns out the reverse is actually the case...ie: if a 100grn measure of 2F also weighs 100grs, that same measure of 3F will actually weigh less.
It burns faster and jumps pressure faster because of the larger number of kernels presenting a larger number of surfaces that can ignite at about the same time.

Good looking Flint double...always wanted one, never ran across one I could afford.

 

[Waterboyark]

Very interesting.

Did you catch the part that the Bess "primed itself"? Initally loading with FFFg it blew a lot of it out of the open pan. We closed it, installed the leather cover at half cock, and then loaded the charge and ball. The powder filled the pan then stopped. We were amused by this fact.

You are correct only about 3-6 grs. of FFFg in the pad is plenty. But that big pan looks so empty! I use 3 grs. (one push) in my 20.

Any idea who made the locks? I thought they were L&R. The geometry on them is off a bit. I have an English flint on the right side (upside down) and a machine cut agate on the left. But it kind of works, enough to test fire. I'd like to remove the hammers and heat/bend the uppers upward to match and strike better. The left is down more than the right.

 

[target man]

that barrel seem very short
how long is it ???


target man

 

[Rifleman1776]

Did you catch the part that the Bess "primed itself"?

Yes, I caught it. That gun must have huge touch holes. The powder choice is not to blame.
And, yes, grossly overprimed.
Methinks flash coming out the barrel at night is not a real test of powder consumption. But, it makes an interesting picture.

 

[Waterboyark]

Well you can see the bayonet lug in the picture. It's not that short but makes the gun very handy, still hefty but handles nicely. The long guns are very sexy but handle like telephone poles in the real world. For hunting with one even back in the day first thing you'd hunt for is a hacksaw.

I bought a nice H&A Underhammer in .58 and to the cringe of my friends I whacked that barrel to 18". The remainder will go to pistol projects. It is now a fun gun to shoot. I mis-apply the Canoe Gun term to it but it fits and my friends now refer to it as such.

 

[George]

Any idea who made the locks?

I have a gun just like yours, and the locks are by W. L. Cochran.

I shoot FFFg in my 20 gauge smoothbores all the time with good results.

Roundball and I have a difference of opinion on the relative weights of larger vs. smaller grained BP. My 3F consistently weighs heavier than 2F for the same volume, and 4F heavier than both.

Spence

 

[roundball]

That's interesting...we had a thread here not all that long ago about the differences of 3F weight vs. 2F weight.
I and a few others weighed measured charges and had similar results...ie: my 3F charges of Goex ran anywhere from 94-97grns compared to 100grns of 2F...counter to what I would have thought.
Maybe there was a moisture content variation between powders tested.

 

[George]

Yes, I remember, and that has been a puzzle to me. I've run the test several times since with no change in my results. I just did it again, set my adjustable to 50 grains, got 48.6 for 2F, 49.8 for 3F, 52.2 for 4F.

Waterboy, I've shot 1+-inch groups with each barrel on my gun, apparently not as well regulated as yours, but more than is needed out to 50 yards for deer, with a little Kentucky windage.

Spence

 

[Carl Fowler III]

I too noticed how large the touch hole was...looks a tad larger than 5/64 inch...the photo doesn't show alot of excessive blow out from the hole upon firing, but still I'd check the touch hole size to be sure! Lighten up on the amount of pan powder used and you should have less problems and still get good ignition! Lots of luck and keep those pictures coming! :thumbsup:

 

[target man]

Well you can see the bayonet lug in the picture. It's not that short but makes the gun very handy, still hefty but handles nicely. The long guns are very sexy but handle like telephone poles in the real world. For hunting with one even back in the day first thing you'd hunt for is a hacksaw.

I bought a nice H&A Underhammer in .58 and to the cringe of my friends I whacked that barrel to 18". The remainder will go to pistol projects. It is now a fun gun to shoot. I mis-apply the Canoe Gun term to it but it fits and my friends now refer to it as such.

i asked for ,,,cause i have in mind to shortened a smooth ..52 cal to a 19 or 20 inches barrel ,small smoothbore ,

and interested on kind of patern whit shots and range accuracy whit round ball


target man

 

[Waterboyark]

Hey! I also see now you too have the flints upside down to ignite well. I am seriously thinking of heating and re-adjusting the upper hammer and jaws to strike higher. One side of mine is lower anyway.

Maybe I should just not get too drastic yet and just adjust flints.

Is Cochran still around?

 

[54ball]

IMHO one thing to consider about flints is each is an individual unless it's a cut flint.

I have used some that due to shape function better bevel up, some bevel down.

In pictures of period flintlocks you will see some flints with as much bevel on top as on bottom, kind of like an axe head.

Some of those flints may be put in those old guns just for display, but I don't think so.

I have used some flints, and then flipped them to get more life out of them.

 

[George]

I usually adjust the flint position to make it strike as high on the frizzen as possible, but that doesn't work on all locks. It sometimes is just a matter of trial and error. I've always found these Cochran locks to be very dependable, whether using knapped or cut flints. They are also very fast.

W. L. Cochran has died, and his locks are no longer being made.

Spence

 

[George]

Made by J.T. Phillips (not J.C) who even made the barrels by ribbing them together and regulated them.

Can you tell me anything about J.T. Phillips? Still around?

I bought my gun from him in 1990, and he was a good guy to deal with. An article came out in Muzzleloader Magazine when he first offered his guns for public sale, with a good review by Bill Scurlock. Just like today, nobody was making double flint shotguns at that time except the big bucks custom builders. I had been waiting 6 years for such a gun, so three days after I saw the article I called to place an order. I wasn't the only one waiting, I was number nine in line. As you can imagine there was some delay in getting my gun. Not as much as might have been, I think I got my gun in about 10 months. Sometime during the wait I called J. T. to check on progress, and in the conversation mentioned I had a hunt coming up on which I wanted to use the gun. He apologized, said it wouldn't be ready in time for that, but offered to ship me one of his personal guns for the hunt. I declined his offer, but was much impressed. As I said, a good guy to deal with. I heard by the grapevine that he didn't take to the pressure of dealing with the public, had some heart trouble, and quit offering the guns after making only a dozen or so.

I did use the gun on that hunt, in Arizona, but a year later:

Spence

 

[Waterboyark]

Spence, I think he lives in Greenbrier Arkansas. I wanted to get hold of him myself to ask him some questions about this one I bought. I think it was built about 10-15 yrs. ago. I missed one last time they showed up at the local gun store and this time I could not pass on it. I traded a couple nice guns and a little cash. But I got it!

I'll keep you posted on J.T. as I get in touch with him. I was thinking of using mine on a Javelina too! LOL that is so funny. We'll see. great picture! Thanks! It motivates me.

 

[George]

Thanks, I would appreciate any info you find about him.

Here's a link to my first experience with the shotgun and that javelina.
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/dream.html

I'm thinking about using it for my turkey hunting this spring, and maybe for my deer in the fall. I always thought I would, but other guns came along and knocked me off course.

Spence