Solved the percussion cap issue.

[dpasek]

BeardedGunsmith:
That looks really nice!
I would be interested in a die set.
Do you change the center pin to get #10 or #11 cap sizes, with the #10 pin being just a little smaller?
How do you ensure that the middle piece (punch) aligns with the outer piece (die)? Do you punch out a flat disk from your sheet stock first? Or do you use a cut square? Or, is the upper ring of the die a guide for the punch? Is there a slot for the stock to slide in just below it? Your photo doesn't show this detail very well.
From what I have seen, the wall thickness of the commercial caps has been measured at .008" or 0.2mm. Will that stock thickness work in your die?
Have you tried soft copper and aluminum stock materials in your die in addition to brass? Those materials in .008" are available from ebay and Amazon sellers. I have already obtained some.
I'm not going to use the Prime-All composition since it is corrosive BC it contains chlorate. Same problem with the toy caps.
I'm going to try the lead nitrate/hypophosphite double salt primer composition (EPH 20) instead. (US patent 4432819) I have already obtained the necessary chemicals.

 

[dpasek]

Hmmm... The edit function seems to be messed up.
How do I delete an extra message? (This one)

 

[Crow Choker]

BeardedGunsmith: Curious---What caps (brand/size) are you basing your #10 and #11 cap dimensions off of? Makes a difference between a Rem 10 and a CCI 10, the CCI's are way to tight to fit on most nipples. Same as difference between a Rem 11 and a CCI 11, same approx internal measurements, but the Rem 11 has a shorter skirt. Rem 10's and CCI 11's are close to the same internals, but the CCI has a shorter skirt, but work very well. RWS 1075's are similar to CCI 11's. Alot of shooters base their cap needs off of what the manufacturer recommends but experimenting with other caps brands/sizes yields better results.

Be interested in you posting what your cap dimensions are for what you say are #10 and #11. Looks like you have developed a possible great tool for making caps, better than others I've seen on the market and as several pointed out one of the best looking 'home brew' cap I've seen. I do shoot a percussion TC Hawken, but also shoot a number of percussion revolvers like many do on this forum and they eat caps alot faster than my TC. By the way Thompson Center from what I've always read always wrote to use #11 caps, I've found that Rem 10's work as well and fit tighter on the nipple which is a plus when hunting. SlixShot nipple producers have maintained that their product was developed to use #11's, esp CCI's. Rem 10's with their longer skirt fit down on the Slix (and all brands) nipple further holding better before firing and staying on the nipple better after. Especially important when firing on a revolver to prevent any cap frags getting where they don't belong. Again be interested in your final cap dimensions. Thank you.

 

[RRidgely52]

Please put me on the waitlist for a #11 when ya got em.

Would love to purchase this.....

 

[springfield art]

Wow, I'm actually surprised in the interest in my little project here! The funny thing is that it was a complete afterthought.

I had done all the research I could on the FH42 composition and bought all the components and then realized that I didn't have any cups to make it work with.

I also learned the trade from my dad, who when alive was a tool and die maker so the pressure was on for this to work

I should also add that I made this a 3 piece unit so that the male die can be replaced for different sized caps.

Many inventions were 'accidents'; you may be the next "Franklin's Key" "Newton's Apple"

 

[BeardedGunsmith]

BeardedGunsmith: Curious---What caps (brand/size) are you basing your #10 and #11 cap dimensions off of? Makes a difference between a Rem 10 and a CCI 10, the CCI's are way to tight to fit on most nipples. Same as difference between a Rem 11 and a CCI 11, same approx internal measurements, but the Rem 11 has a shorter skirt. Rem 10's and CCI 11's are close to the same internals, but the CCI has a shorter skirt, but work very well. RWS 1075's are similar to CCI 11's. Alot of shooters base their cap needs off of what the manufacturer recommends but experimenting with other caps brands/sizes yields better results.

Be interested in you posting what your cap dimensions are for what you say are #10 and #11. Looks like you have developed a possible great tool for making caps, better than others I've seen on the market and as several pointed out one of the best looking 'home brew' cap I've seen. I do shoot a percussion TC Hawken, but also shoot a number of percussion revolvers like many do on this forum and they eat caps alot faster than my TC. By the way Thompson Center from what I've always read always wrote to use #11 caps, I've found that Rem 10's work as well and fit tighter on the nipple which is a plus when hunting. SlixShot nipple producers have maintained that their product was developed to use #11's, esp CCI's. Rem 10's with their longer skirt fit down on the Slix (and all brands) nipple further holding better before firing and staying on the nipple better after. Especially important when firing on a revolver to prevent any cap frags getting where they don't belong. Again be interested in your final cap dimensions. Thank you.

I made them to be a snug fit on my Pietta 1858.

 

[BeardedGunsmith]

Many inventions were 'accidents'; you may be the next "Franklin's Key" "Newton's Apple"

Why the eye roll emoji?

 

[deerstalkert]

I didn't intend for you to try to look up that other members thread on homemade caps,
But it's not surprising you can't find it I think they banned him and pulled down all of his threads because they found out he was insane

i was unaware that sanity was a requirement for being a member here! there goes the majority of members!

 

[dpasek]

BeardedGunsmith: Curious---What caps (brand/size) are you basing your #10 and #11 cap dimensions off of? Makes a difference between a Rem 10 and a CCI 10, the CCI's are way to tight to fit on most nipples. Same as difference between a Rem 11 and a CCI 11, same approx internal measurements, but the Rem 11 has a shorter skirt. Rem 10's and CCI 11's are close to the same internals, but the CCI has a shorter skirt, but work very well. RWS 1075's are similar to CCI 11's. Alot of shooters base their cap needs off of what the manufacturer recommends but experimenting with other caps brands/sizes yields better results.

Be interested in you posting what your cap dimensions are for what you say are #10 and #11. Looks like you have developed a possible great tool for making caps, better than others I've seen on the market and as several pointed out one of the best looking 'home brew' cap I've seen. I do shoot a percussion TC Hawken, but also shoot a number of percussion revolvers like many do on this forum and they eat caps alot faster than my TC. By the way Thompson Center from what I've always read always wrote to use #11 caps, I've found that Rem 10's work as well and fit tighter on the nipple which is a plus when hunting. SlixShot nipple producers have maintained that their product was developed to use #11's, esp CCI's. Rem 10's with their longer skirt fit down on the Slix (and all brands) nipple further holding better before firing and staying on the nipple better after. Especially important when firing on a revolver to prevent any cap frags getting where they don't belong. Again be interested in your final cap dimensions. Thank you.

Look up this document: "Percussion Caps and Nipples – by “Mako”
He did an extensive analysis of cap dimensions from several different manufacturers using precision measuring equipment. I don't recall the download link ATM, but I am attaching the .pdf for future reference.

 

[Crow Choker]

The chart by Mako tells it all when deciding cap use. Everyone should go to the CAS Forum, Darksiders Den section, Dark Arts subsection, about 2/3rds of the way down on the page and read Mako's post titled 'Cap Gun Primer: Correct Cone Length'. Mako a very knowledgeable shooter gives CAD drawings of percussion caps and nipples (cones) explaining the relationship of cap to nipple, what is the correct fit, and a host of other information. Page two of the post has the cap chart that 'dpasek' posted. A very much needed read by anyone shooting percussion firearms!!!

I asked 'BeardedGunsmith' the dimension question of what he says is a #10 cap as dimensions of current produced caps vary. What his Remington cap and ball revolver takes (he advises is a #10) may be too tight or too loose in any cap revolver others may have. I see by a picture BG posted that his Remington appears to be a brass frame model which I've read by others vary in some physical dimensions depending on make and when produced. Not knocking his cap gun, just stating alot of the obvious things that have occurred in the history of reproduction made Italian percussion revolvers.

******There IS a BIG difference between a Remington #10 and a CCI #10 as there is between a Remington #11 and a CCI #11. Mako 's chart shows that and I've personally compared all four (plus RWS) on various nipples (both original and after market) on the variety of Colt and Pietta cap guns in my collection, a wide range of proper fit and function.*******

Case in point, I have two Remington's, both steel frame, one a Pietta, the other a Uberti. I bought the Pietta used from a shooter on another forum, it likes #10 Remington's the best, will use RWS 1045 and CCI's #11's. Bought another Pietta cylinder from another shooter on the same forum later. Cylinder fits and functions fine, but it had a bit smaller diameter nipples. In fact it is the only percussion cylinder in my stable of cap guns that I could use some #10 CCI caps of which I bought 500 of before buying the cylinder that the #10 CCI's would seat on. Everything else the CCI 10's wouldn't seat on nipples that I had no problem with of the other caps I just mentioned. In order to seat the #10 CCI's they would have to be pushed with a wooden dowel with force that scared the bejebber's outa me. The CCI 10's are the smallest dimensioned internal caps currently in production. Check Mako's chart. From what I mostly found out is that they are good for small caliber revolvers/single shots and other small diameter nipples (such as my 2nd Pietta cylinder). After measuring the dimensions on those nipples and comparing what was on Track of the Wolf's nipple chart told alot. Bought them way back in the day before I was aware and had never seen Mako's chart yet. Shot up some of those CCI 10's on that Pietta cylinder before changing nipples. Should put em back on to eat up the rest of the CCI's.

As I stated before, asked BeardedGunsmith what the internal dimension of his "#10" cap was for this reason and would also be curious what the length of the skirt is as that makes a big difference on how well the cap grips the outside of the tapered nipple and a longer skirt that fits will stay on better before and during firing. From the years I've shot percussion revolvers and from what others have reported is that a cap with a longer skirt will retain on the nipple better after firing and not fall where it shouldn't. Just asking as if you BG would ever market your cap maker I'd like to know what dimension the 10 or 11 size would produce before buying. Makes a difference, alot more accurate than saying they "fit on my Pietta 1858". Appreciate any information. Thank you. CC

 

[Dave Vissotzky]

I sure hope you can get these made in quantities where you can at least take orders. Really want to purchase sets. Best of luck!

 

[BeardedGunsmith]

I sure hope you can get these made in quantities where you can at least take orders. Really want to purchase sets. Best of luck!

I've been sending people the files to print their own but I may start producing them. They work way better than they should and don't jam any of my revolvers which is alot to say on my 1849.

 

[Crow Choker]

I sure hope you can get these made in quantities where you can at least take orders. Really want to purchase sets. Best of luck!

FWIW BG my take on his post was he was referring to your metal cap making die as this thread is about your metal cap making die kit not the plastic cap making printer. Also have you measured the inside diameter and the length of skirt on what you refer to #10's and #11"s? As I advised in other posts not all 10 and 11 sized caps sold by manufacturers are of equal dimensions. #10 Rem and CCI are totally different as are #11 Remington's and CCI's.

 

[BeardedGunsmith]

FWIW BG my take on his post was he was referring to your metal cap making die as this thread is about your metal cap making die kit not the plastic cap making printer. Also have you measured the inside diameter and the length of skirt on what you refer to #10's and #11"s? As I advised in other posts not all 10 and 11 sized caps sold by manufacturers are of equal dimensions. #10 Rem and CCI are totally different as are #11 Remington's and CCI's.

Ah, I got confused between my two threads. The internal dimensions of the caps I call number 10's are .159 and the number 11's are .169
I'm going by the fitment of the cap and balls that I own and figure that there should only be 2 different sizes, regardless of designation.

 

[dpasek]

FWIW BG my take on his post was he was referring to your metal cap making die as this thread is about your metal cap making die kit not the plastic cap making printer. Also have you measured the inside diameter and the length of skirt on what you refer to #10's and #11"s? As I advised in other posts not all 10 and 11 sized caps sold by manufacturers are of equal dimensions. #10 Rem and CCI are totally different as are #11 Remington's and CCI's.

The PDF file that I posted has all of the relevant dimensions in detail.

 

[user 63484]

I made them to be a snug fit on my Pietta 1858.

You aren’t making not owning one of these any easier…

I was just shooting my Pietta 1858 today and ended up biting each cap before loading on my second cylinder.

My first round of shooting only made it 2/3 of the way through before I noticed shots 5 and 6 had their caps bucked off sometime in the first 4 shots.