Some advise please

[bob1961]

hey claude....when i talked to T/C they told me my hawken had .006 deep rifleing....cuase i told them i was looking into a bullet that was .512 in dia.....and was calling them to find out what mine was..... ::...........................bob

 

[Rebel]

AMEN RUSS :: ::

 

[Tom67]

If you all would please bare with me. My line of thought is this. I have (in the world of centerfires) always chosen from makers that are known for well made firearms, albiet mostly handguns. Makers such as Glock, H&K, S&W, Ruger and the like are well known to me. But here among the muzzle loading community I'm lost. I guess my real question is who is the Glock or S&W among the black powder firearms makers? Or does it just not work the same way?
Since I've been delving into the differant makers of muzzle loaders I have seen some really nice firearms. Some are quite literally works of art! But what I'm looking for is the same thing I've always been interested in and that is something functional and well made. Maybe a lil more on the nicer side. At this stage of the game I'm more interested in something already assembled but if I happen to find something that I like better that requires a lil work then I'm all for it. As far as the cost goes I was setting what I would be willing to pay on what I would normally expect to have to shell out for what I call a good shooter. If I'm setting the price a lil low then I guess I need to do some math. Nothing fancy or even top of the line. Just something that I could rely on for a number of years and many rounds and looks pretty good. Would this be the Lyman's GPR? Or something from Pedersoli? I really like the idea of something made here state side but it seems as though most production guns are made in Italy. What's with that anyways?

 

well tom in that case
IMO i would get the GPR. worst case if you get a flinter is a new blank flash hole liner so you can move the flash hole up and maybe some work on the frizzen

 

[roundball]

And don't overlook the TC Hawken...it's a good mass produced rifle for the money, made in New Hampshire, and TC's lifetime warranty is second to none, etc.
If you order a new one through a dealer, you can specify a 1:66" round ball barrel for it for another $10...but frankly, my 1:48" barrels with their .006" grooves shoot patched balls almost exactly the same as my 1:66" round ball barrels.
The point of that is you can usually pick up mint condition TC Hawkens with 1:48" standard barrels in the $225-$275 range off various gun auctions...get yourself started then decide if you want to take another step in the future with a semi-custom or custom rifle...and the good news is that used TC Hawkens hold their resale value...it's a no risk proposition

 

[Rebel]

If you want one that will last you quite a while, look more authentic, and will pass at most moumtain man rondys, get the Lyman Great Plains. They are a well made, accurate rifle. On the other hand if you don't care about the authentic looks part, the T/C Hawken or Renegade are both well made and have a lifetime warrenty.

 

There are no Glocks and S&W's in the traditional muzzleloading field. The best, closest to being 'right', seems to be the Luman GPR, but it doesn't compare in ML's with what Glock and S&W & Colt etc are in the handgun scene.IMHO
: In order to get "Best Quality" merchandise in a traditional rifle, the rifle must to be custom made.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Actually, Glocks and S&W's are fairly top shelf. Contrast a cheapy 'European' semi or revolver with a top end S&W. The plain, basic TVM semi-custom rifles compares with S&W favorably in value for price. Production made and idential as peas, but high quality.

I'd say T/C is the Ruger of the M/L world. Honest, solid and functional weapons, but not a functional copy of anything that ever existed before. I cried real tears when T/C discontinued the Pennsylvania Hunter and instead stepped further towards the dark side instead of embracing a more representative historical style M/L. Can you imagine a 1803 Harpers Ferry produced by T/C? I can't believe it would not have a following - especially with the Lewis & Clark bicentennial whoopla. How hard would it be for them to produce a smooth trade gun that was 100% in silhouette, if not internal workings?

I respect T/C, but I think they stiffed those of us who want something a bit more traditional in a traditional weapon.

Browning and Ithaca both USED to make a credible Hawken rifle (probably in Japan, however).

 

[roundball]

I'd say T/C is the Ruger of the M/L world. Honest, solid and functional weapons, but not a functional copy of anything that ever existed before. I cried real tears when T/C discontinued the Pennsylvania Hunter and instead stepped further towards the dark side instead of embracing a more representative historical style M/L. Can you imagine a 1803 Harpers Ferry produced by T/C? I can't believe it would not have a following - especially with the Lewis & Clark bicentennial whoopla. How hard would it be for them to produce a smooth trade gun that was 100% in silhouette, if not internal workings?
I respect T/C, but I think they stiffed those of us who want something a bit more traditional in a traditional weapon.

No secret I'm a big TC fan having started with them years ago, I'm heavily invested in them now and at my age I can't really see any practical reason that I'll change...what I have does everything I need, etc.

However, I agree with your comments, and am also disappointed that TC has not even kept up the pace with what it referred to as their own style of traditional products.

Virtually everything has been discontinued now and the only side lock muzzleloaders offered in this year's catalog is a .50cal TC Hawken and a .50cal Renegade....the 45's were dropped last year and the .54's have been dropped this year.

Even their Fox Ridge shop stopped making the 1:66" .45 cal round ball barrels two years ago, and abandoned even any thoughts to make a .58cal RB barrel...they still make the .50 & .54cal RB barrels but they could drop them any day now the way their attitude seems to be shifting.

I think the major shift took place in the mid 90's when they had that big plant fire and had to do a major overhaul, retooling, reinvesting, etc...and as any prudent business people have to do, I think they looked at the market, and reinvested with where the market was headed...inlines.

TC was great for this country in the 70's, 80's, 90's, but it's clear they've turned their focus away from traditional type products...on the other hand, we might see a gradual return when the inline craze settles down

 

[Tom67]

Before I say anything else I want to honestly thank all of you for your input. I knew I had come to the right place for an answer to my newbie questions. I can't help but feeling like I did way back when I started looking for my first centerfire. The biggest differance being that now we have the internet and a forum such as this where there are so many knowledable people. I called TVM earlier and there is a 6 to 9 month wait for a rifle. I think I'll get a GPR to start with and order something custom in the near future. It seems as though the Lyman's comes highly recomended as far as a period styled good shootin production gun goes and isn't very expensive. Thanks again.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the GPR. A good friend has one and he shoots it VERY well.

Before you commit, check with Track of the Wolf and Dixie Gun Works in their used rifle offerings. Sometimes a very nice flintlock can be found at an attractive price, and they'll both take it back if you're not satisfied.