Soon to be a flint shooter (maybe)

[GAHUNTER60]

Okay, I'm so new to flintlock shooting, that I have not even gotten one yet. How newbie is that?

I'm 69, and have been shooting sidelock percussion guns since 1967. Like many who started back then, I took up the sport because the State of Georgia sponsored special primitive weapons hunts on certain WMAs in advance of allowing modern firearms hunters on them. This appealed to me for several reasons, not the least of which was being able to hunt either sex deer with a firearm, a rare occurrence back in those days.

But the nostalgic nature of the sport was not lost on me either. I'm a history buff (I minored in History in college). I believe that this is this reason that I never "graduated" from historic sidelock rifles to modern in-lines. In 1976, I bought a .50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken, and have hunted with that rifle ever since. It is a very accurate rifle inside 120 yards, hits hard with big conical bullets and always goes boom when I want her to. In fact, it's latest kill occurred just last Saturday -- a big Georgia 8-pointer (story in the traditional hunting forum).

But lately, I've been bitten by the nostalgia bug again. While researching my mother's family genealogy, I learned that my Great, Great Great Great Grandfather, was killed at the Battle of Kings Mountain in South Carolina. (That's right, the Battle was fought in South Carolina. The town of Kings Mountain is in North Carolina). My Grandfather's name was Col. James H. Williams, and he was the highest ranking Colonial officer killed in the battle. Of course, the Battle of Kings Mountain is famous for being the one and only battle in the Revolutionary War in which the use of rifles by the Colonial side made the difference between winning and losing.

Also, let's face it, my Thompson Center Hawken is not a true historic reproduction of anything. It might kinda resemble a St. Louis Hawken rifle, but when was the last time Jeramiah Johnson changed his zero by clicking the windage screw on his adjustable rear sights? Also, it has become too easy to kill a deer with it. I still have good eyes, so I might as well be hunting with a modern open-sighted gun (which, in all reality, I am!)

So I've decided that it's time for me to "graduate" to a flintlock. Only problem is, other than watching a few folks shoot them at my range, and YouTube videos, I don't know the first thing about shooting, equipment needed, accessories, cleaning, maintaining and hunting with a flintlock! I was lucky enough back in the 1960s to have a friend whose family was into percussion rifles who showed me the "ropes!" I'm a hands-on type of learner. In one hour of personal training, I learn more than reading 10 articles on a subject. After that one hour, however, the 10 articles I read actually might make sense to me.

I'm not rich, so I need something affordable. To that end, I'm looking at buying one of the TVM Natchez Poor Boy rifles in .54 caliber. Reviews on the gun have been good, especially in the area of accuracy, which is paramount to me. Yeah, I'd love a Lancaster or Virginia reproduction rifle with all the pretty "stuff," on it, but what I'm after is a gun to serve a purpose -- and that purpose is to kill deer (much like the guns the Over-Mountain Men used when they attacked Major Patrick Ferguson's garrison of loyalist Tories at Kings Mountain!). I chose .54 because I've had bad luck in the past with round balls in smaller calibers on deer -- and those deer still haunt me at night!

So, the above is potatoes; now for the meat of my posting here:

What is y'all's opinion of the TVM Natchez Poor Boy?

If I were willing to spend a little extra, should I get a swamped barrel, or double-set trigger? (I truly do love my double-set triggers)

What are some absolute necessities to buy as accessories to the rifle?

What is the best, most user-friendly, "guide" to learning the basics of shooting flintlocks?

And now for the Big One: is there anyone who lives within a hundred or so miles of Gainesville, GA, who would be willing to meet me a range of your choice to give me hands-on experience with my new rifle (once I get it,
of course)?

Thanks in advance, guys. I look forward to the day I become a regular on the Flintlock forum.

 

[Bob McBride]

If you can shoot a percussion you can shoot a flintlock. Make sure the flint is tightly bound in leather, square and centered to the face of the frizzen, and keep the frizzen and flint free of oil. Load as you’re used to (round balls), then prick the touch hole with a piece of brass round stock that will slide into the hole and auger you out a little cavity. Half cock, prime, close frizzen. Full cock in a safe direction and make smoke.

I can’t speak to the TVM but a solid piece of advise for good consistent discharge is to drill out your touch hole out to 1/16” or so, and learn to knap a flint to keep it sharp. A knapping rod is easiest to learn to use well, IME.

Flint Knapper
Homemade touch hole prick
Spare flints

Thats about it. I haven’t had my third cup so someone will chime in with something I forgot.

 

[user 48679]

In addition to Bob's comments, there are a few caveats to shooting a rocklock successfully.

1) Never, ever, use any propellent other than Holy Black - especially pellets.

2) On priming, only drop enough powder into the pan for ignition, ensuring that the vent hole isn't covered.

3) When shooting, be sure to "follow through" after pulling the trigger a bit longer than when shooting a capgun.

4) If you want to hunt in moist/wet conditions, get a flinchlock cover (aka: cow's knee) to protect the priming from moisture.



My flintlock A&H Mountain Rifle actually had a much faster ignition/lock time than any of the capguns I've used.

BTW, YMMV, but IMO a first-time flintlock shooter might want to obtain an economical, new, entry-level gun to find out if a flinter is right for them before getting into the deep end.

 

[ord sgt]

Personally speaking, I have found better success with English flints. I have tried the saw cut type flint material but I didn't like the results. I have used English for about 40 years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
You will need the proper size flint for your lock. Overall length and width, bevel up or bevel down, angle of flint edge in relation to the pan, many variables to consider. Just a part of the flintlock experience. It's all a part of the fun of the flint world.

 

[EC121]

I would opt for a swamped barrel for the balance. After that figure out what length of pull you want. A swamped barrel and a stock that fits with a good lock( Chambers Early Ketland is a good fit for the .54) are the required parts. Style and triggers are your option.
Ask around Gainesville. The Blue Ridge Mountain Men used to be active in that area. I used to go to their silhouette shoots in Helen, Ga.

 

[Phil Coffins]

A swamped barrel is well worth the money, no question about it. Since you’re used to set triggers then I highly recommend them. You only have to buy a good gun once as you well know from your TC so don’t even think about a entry level rifle. A 54 calibre rifle is hands down the best choice. And find a locale guy or club to show you the ropes is as good as it gets. For young guy you seem to me to all have this figured out!

 

[Pete G]

Buy a good gun to start with. A cheap "entry level " gun will be a frustrating waste of money.

 

[Kansas Jake]

You might take a look at the classifieds here as nice flintlocks show up for reasonable prices on a regular basis. There are several there now. Given your family heritage, I'd look for something appropriate to that time frame and location in terms of style and caliber. Swamped too is good. You also might consider one of the Kibler kits too.

 

[Leadball loader]

Buy a copy of Flintlocks A Practical Guide for their Use and Appreciation by Eric A. Bye from the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association.
This book will give you the info you are seeking.
LBL

 

[SDSmlf]

Okay, I'm so new to flintlock shooting, that I have not even gotten one yet. How newbie is that?

I'm 69, and have been shooting sidelock percussion guns since 1967. Like many who started back then, I took up the sport because the State of Georgia sponsored special primitive weapons hunts on certain WMAs in advance of allowing modern firearms hunters on them. This appealed to me for several reasons, not the least of which was being able to hunt either sex deer with a firearm, a rare occurrence back in those days.

But the nostalgic nature of the sport was not lost on me either. I'm a history buff (I minored in History in college). I believe that this is this reason that I never "graduated" from historic sidelock rifles to modern in-lines. In 1976, I bought a .50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken, and have hunted with that rifle ever since. It is a very accurate rifle inside 120 yards, hits hard with big conical bullets and always goes boom when I want her to. In fact, it's latest kill occurred just last Saturday -- a big Georgia 8-pointer (story in the traditional hunting forum).

But lately, I've been bitten by the nostalgia bug again. While researching my mother's family genealogy, I learned that my Great, Great Great Great Grandfather, was killed at the Battle of Kings Mountain in South Carolina. (That's right, the Battle was fought in South Carolina. The town of Kings Mountain is in North Carolina). My Grandfather's name was Col. James H. Williams, and he was the highest ranking Colonial officer killed in the battle. Of course, the Battle of Kings Mountain is famous for being the one and only battle in the Revolutionary War in which the use of rifles by the Colonial side made the difference between winning and losing.

Also, let's face it, my Thompson Center Hawken is not a true historic reproduction of anything. It might kinda resemble a St. Louis Hawken rifle, but when was the last time Jeramiah Johnson changed his zero by clicking the windage screw on his adjustable rear sights? Also, it has become too easy to kill a deer with it. I still have good eyes, so I might as well be hunting with a modern open-sighted gun (which, in all reality, I am!)

So I've decided that it's time for me to "graduate" to a flintlock. Only problem is, other than watching a few folks shoot them at my range, and YouTube videos, I don't know the first thing about shooting, equipment needed, accessories, cleaning, maintaining and hunting with a flintlock! I was lucky enough back in the 1960s to have a friend whose family was into percussion rifles who showed me the "ropes!" I'm a hands-on type of learner. In one hour of personal training, I learn more than reading 10 articles on a subject. After that one hour, however, the 10 articles I read actually might make sense to me.

I'm not rich, so I need something affordable. To that end, I'm looking at buying one of the TVM Natchez Poor Boy rifles in .54 caliber. Reviews on the gun have been good, especially in the area of accuracy, which is paramount to me. Yeah, I'd love a Lancaster or Virginia reproduction rifle with all the pretty "stuff," on it, but what I'm after is a gun to serve a purpose -- and that purpose is to kill deer (much like the guns the Over-Mountain Men used when they attacked Major Patrick Ferguson's garrison of loyalist Tories at Kings Mountain!). I chose .54 because I've had bad luck in the past with round balls in smaller calibers on deer -- and those deer still haunt me at night!

So, the above is potatoes; now for the meat of my posting here:

What is y'all's opinion of the TVM Natchez Poor Boy?

If I were willing to spend a little extra, should I get a swamped barrel, or double-set trigger? (I truly do love my double-set triggers)

What are some absolute necessities to buy as accessories to the rifle?

What is the best, most user-friendly, "guide" to learning the basics of shooting flintlocks?

And now for the Big One: is there anyone who lives within a hundred or so miles of Gainesville, GA, who would be willing to meet me a range of your choice to give me hands-on experience with my new rifle (once I get it,
of course)?

Thanks in advance, guys. I look forward to the day I become a regular on the Flintlock forum.

The bride and I hike both King’s Mountain and Crowder Mountain (just over the border in NC) parks quite often. Have you visited them?

As far as theTVM Natchez Poor Boy, unless you have a good price on a used one, for just a few more dollars than what a finished new one costs, you can be into Kibler kit. As long as you are somewhat handy, a breeze to finish, and in my opinion, a big upgrade over the TVM.

 

[vezePilot]

What happened to the "How To ... " section of the forums? When I was getting started with my new Flintlock Rifle just two months ago, I read an article by Claude Mathis that was very informative. What happened to that article?

 

[SDSmlf]

What happened to the "How To ... " section of the forums? When I was getting started with my new Flintlock Rifle just two months ago, I read an article by Claude Mathis that was very informative. What happened to that article?

Check this post. Tables, Useful Information thread links.

 

[watopeka]

Welcome to the Stone Age, god are you gonna love this, impressive is one word to start with.
But there is a learning curve, walk don’t run and laugh when it goes pouffe with no bang.
have fun can’t wait to hear how it goes.

 

[Many Klatch]

Your experience with the caplock will be a big help. The explosion in the pan in front of your face may be a problem but after a while you don't even notice it. Stick with the set triggers if that is what you are used to. I don't use 4F for priming. I prime from the same horn as I use to load the barrel. 3F seems to work as well as 4F. Simple is good. All of my flintlocks have had the touch hole drilled out to 1/16". I don't worry about how much priming powder is in the pan as long as there is enough, I'm happy. French Blonde flints and English Black flints both work well, some folks think one is better than the other, I can't tell the difference. You are 69 years old, you know what you want. Go get it and start shooting.

 

[Art Caputo]

Having started with a caplock, I switched to shooting flintlocks more then four decades ago(I’m also 69 years old). This was largely driven by the “flintlock only” season in neighboring PA. I must admit that it took me a while to master compared to the caplock. Information was scarce, and my choice of equipment, lacking. But once my methods and choice of components/accessories were established, my preference for the flintlock strengthened, with results equal or better then those with my cap locks. My advice would be to start out with the best rifle that you can afford...Buy once, cry once. Take careful attention to the lock/flash hole orientation, and rifle fit/balance. I think your inclination to look at the TVM is a good one. Over the years I have owned and shot several of the TVM rifles. They have, in my experience, proved to be accurate and reliable shooters, and TVM stands by their products. Learn the various techniques for accuracy, reliability, and reliable ignition, whether by a a tutor or, some of the very good instructional U-tube videos. Shooting the flintlock accurately/off-hand (or any rifle for that matter) requires careful attention sight picture, trigger squeeze, and follow through. With practice, IMO, it’s not very difficult to master.

 

[Tn poor boy]

I like wise are new to the .flintlock gun also just ordered a Tvm in 36 cal poor boy.I hope it want be Alet down

 

[vezePilot]

Check this post. Tables, Useful Information thread links.

Yes, thanks! And it was not an article by Claude Mathis. The article I was thinking of is "Flintlocks- How to shoot them" by Paul Vallandigham, and it is included there in the Tables page.

 

[Capnball]

Okay, I'm so new to flintlock shooting, that I have not even gotten one yet. How newbie is that?

I'm 69, and have been shooting sidelock percussion guns since 1967. Like many who started back then, I took up the sport because the State of Georgia sponsored special primitive weapons hunts on certain WMAs in advance of allowing modern firearms hunters on them. This appealed to me for several reasons, not the least of which was being able to hunt either sex deer with a firearm, a rare occurrence back in those days.

But the nostalgic nature of the sport was not lost on me either. I'm a history buff (I minored in History in college). I believe that this is this reason that I never "graduated" from historic sidelock rifles to modern in-lines. In 1976, I bought a .50 caliber Thompson Center Hawken, and have hunted with that rifle ever since. It is a very accurate rifle inside 120 yards, hits hard with big conical bullets and always goes boom when I want her to. In fact, it's latest kill occurred just last Saturday -- a big Georgia 8-pointer (story in the traditional hunting forum).

But lately, I've been bitten by the nostalgia bug again. While researching my mother's family genealogy, I learned that my Great, Great Great Great Grandfather, was killed at the Battle of Kings Mountain in South Carolina. (That's right, the Battle was fought in South Carolina. The town of Kings Mountain is in North Carolina). My Grandfather's name was Col. James H. Williams, and he was the highest ranking Colonial officer killed in the battle. Of course, the Battle of Kings Mountain is famous for being the one and only battle in the Revolutionary War in which the use of rifles by the Colonial side made the difference between winning and losing.

Also, let's face it, my Thompson Center Hawken is not a true historic reproduction of anything. It might kinda resemble a St. Louis Hawken rifle, but when was the last time Jeramiah Johnson changed his zero by clicking the windage screw on his adjustable rear sights? Also, it has become too easy to kill a deer with it. I still have good eyes, so I might as well be hunting with a modern open-sighted gun (which, in all reality, I am!)

So I've decided that it's time for me to "graduate" to a flintlock. Only problem is, other than watching a few folks shoot them at my range, and YouTube videos, I don't know the first thing about shooting, equipment needed, accessories, cleaning, maintaining and hunting with a flintlock! I was lucky enough back in the 1960s to have a friend whose family was into percussion rifles who showed me the "ropes!" I'm a hands-on type of learner. In one hour of personal training, I learn more than reading 10 articles on a subject. After that one hour, however, the 10 articles I read actually might make sense to me.

I'm not rich, so I need something affordable. To that end, I'm looking at buying one of the TVM Natchez Poor Boy rifles in .54 caliber. Reviews on the gun have been good, especially in the area of accuracy, which is paramount to me. Yeah, I'd love a Lancaster or Virginia reproduction rifle with all the pretty "stuff," on it, but what I'm after is a gun to serve a purpose -- and that purpose is to kill deer (much like the guns the Over-Mountain Men used when they attacked Major Patrick Ferguson's garrison of loyalist Tories at Kings Mountain!). I chose .54 because I've had bad luck in the past with round balls in smaller calibers on deer -- and those deer still haunt me at night!

So, the above is potatoes; now for the meat of my posting here:

What is y'all's opinion of the TVM Natchez Poor Boy?

If I were willing to spend a little extra, should I get a swamped barrel, or double-set trigger? (I truly do love my double-set triggers)

What are some absolute necessities to buy as accessories to the rifle?

What is the best, most user-friendly, "guide" to learning the basics of shooting flintlocks?

And now for the Big One: is there anyone who lives within a hundred or so miles of Gainesville, GA, who would be willing to meet me a range of your choice to give me hands-on experience with my new rifle (once I get it,
of course)?

Thanks in advance, guys. I look forward to the day I become a regular on the Flintlock forum.

Looks like you're doing pretty good with the homework. I like the TVM flintlock stuff and I'll bet if you contact sombody from that company about that rifle, they will also have everything you need to have a positive first experience with rock locks. I have a little bit of everything. My Flintlock is a Pedersoli Kentucky long rifle in .45. it shoots straight and is very reliable. The price for my budget new/used (never fired) was right on the mark. Had I been sitting on a couple grand? I might have bought a replica custom target rifle. I have an original 1861 Bridesberg that I restored from a sporterized barn find. It works ok but needs some love from Bobby Hoyt. Then it'll work great. I also have a modern unmentionable and that was a gift from my cousin. Kicks like a mule and can put a saboted conicle where you want it out to 150 yards no problem. Each has its own accoutrements. I'm currently working on period correct gear for my flinter.

 

[brentona]

I am too going to closely monitor this thread. I went with exactly your description. TVM Poorboy in .54 with swamped barrels. I opted out of the set trigger. Melanie (wonderful to talk to) and I had a long email chain and a couple phone calls in regards to the rifle. She said stock single trigger is around 3-3.5 LBS. Honestly, I do a lot of trigger pulling on that exact weight and figured i don't need the 8oz. trigger for the extra cash. YMMV!

I originally joined the forum declaring NC as my home. I took a good job offer and actually this Saturday am moving down to the Charleston area. Maybe one day in the future we could get some people together from our respective areas and have a rendezvous somewhere in the middle!

 

[mac266]

Of course, the Battle of Kings Mountain is famous for being the one and only battle in the Revolutionary War in which the use of rifles by the Colonial side made the difference between winning and losing.

I'm a Revolutionary War historian, and am currently pursuing a masters in history. As such, I'm going to take issue with that claim. While rifles were definitely a major factor in that battle, they were a major factor in *most* other battles throughout the war. Even after the French started providing smoothbore muskets in late 1777 for the Continental troops, the militias were still equipped with rifles throughout the entire war, and they manner in which they were employed was PIVOTAL in some cases. At most times, up to half of Washington's force was militia. Cowpens is another obvious one, but there are others.

Now, on to your question. I don't know the gun you asked about first hand. But I will say Pedersoli makes a very good gun for around $600 and it is available through Cabela's. In fact, glance up at my profile pic and that's what I'm carrying. That's quite a bit cheaper than these handmade ones a lot of the flintlock guys love, but it's still a decent quality gun. The disadvantage is that it is an assembly line type gun, not unique like the Cadillacs you'll see on here.

Why am I dressed as a Continental soldier while carrying a rifle instead of a Charleville musket? I researched my 6th-great grandfather (say "great" six times). He was a militia man in his father's Massachusetts militia company; at 15 years of age, he served as a corporal. When the "shot heard 'round the world" rang out at Lexington and Concord, he, his brother, and his father (along with the whole company) turned out and fought. Several months later, the unit was incorporated into the Continental Army when it was created by Congress, June 14, 1775. They went on to fight at Bunker Hill. While his father and brother eventually returned to their civilian lives, he remained on active duty until a year after the war ended (ended 1783, he was on active duty until 1784).

Knowing this, I wanted to impersonate him for my local Sons of the American Revolution chapter. I researched the uniform regulations, and found he would have been dressed any of four different ways, depending on the time I chose. Simply put, he was on active duty for so long, the uniforms changed that often. I have a civilian outfit I use to impersonate him early in the war. The picture you see is a Continental uniform from 1779 through the end of the war. The white facings indicate New England states (the red with which most people are familiar was NOT standard throughout the army until after the war).

From the start of the war, he was promoted to Sergeant, then Ensign (an army rank back then!), and finally, Lieutenant (modern day 1LT) in 1779 and he likely remained at that rank through the tenure of his service. By war's end, he was the Regimental Paymaster, which may have carried the rank of Captain, but there is no paperwork showing he was promoted to Captain.

So...given that he started the war as an enlisted militia man, he would have provided his own rifle. After becoming an officer, he would not have been issued one of the French muskets. So, I figure he would have kept carrying the rifle he started with.
Plus I don't own a French musket and I don't really have any use for a smoothbore weapon