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Source for Swan Shot
- Thread starter Ashworth
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I've never seen a really satisfactory definition of the term "swan shot". I mean as to exact size. I have the impression that it was a rather generic term like "buck shot". I think they overlapped and what one person called swan another might call buck. I'd recomend Hornady #4 buck.
The swan shot that I am looking for is also called drop shot or drip shot .It was bird shot of the 18th and 19th century . It is teardrop shaped ,the last saw was being made in England not avaiable any more from that source. I have done a google search no luck.It is about an 1/8 of an inch or less in size.
Thanks Alan Ashworth
Thanks Alan Ashworth
The authenticity of swan shot as tadpole-shaped shot is hotly debated among some circles but I have made it myself. All you need a is real steel mesh screen, melted lead, and a bucket of water.
Erzulis boat
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I am not near my library, but I could have sworn that at least 3 different sources discussed "swan shot" (these are old books from the time period, 2 at least?).
When shot was cut from sheets (cubed) and rolled to knock off the edges, I believe the term "swan shot" was used, so this would eliminate the tear drop shape angle (if I am correct, but could be wrong).
Anyway, the references classify shot by "To the pound"- and swan was 250 or something, buck was something, and there were others too.
When shot towers were underway, they had a series of sieves that sorted the shot after it had rained down and solidified. I did not find any indication (in my limited sources) that the mesh the molten lead flowed through at the top dictated the shot size, only after it was sifted later, as the disparity was too great.
The final sieve pass would qualify the shot as "dust".
When shot was cut from sheets (cubed) and rolled to knock off the edges, I believe the term "swan shot" was used, so this would eliminate the tear drop shape angle (if I am correct, but could be wrong).
Anyway, the references classify shot by "To the pound"- and swan was 250 or something, buck was something, and there were others too.
When shot towers were underway, they had a series of sieves that sorted the shot after it had rained down and solidified. I did not find any indication (in my limited sources) that the mesh the molten lead flowed through at the top dictated the shot size, only after it was sifted later, as the disparity was too great.
The final sieve pass would qualify the shot as "dust".
Swan shot is about .250 diameter, CAST round ball used for hunting large waterfowl, like swans.
The tear drop shaped shot that many mistakenly call "swan shot" is, to my knowledge, not documented.
What IS documented, by a numer of sources, is CAST ROUND BALL OF ABOUT 25 CALIBER, cast in gang moulds.
Go to this URL to see the type of mould used to cast swan shot. Scroll down to the last image.[url] http://www.users.qwest.net/~cannonmike/[/url]
I have digital photos of "swan droppings" and true swan shot. I gotta learn how to post photos. :cursing:
J.D.
The tear drop shaped shot that many mistakenly call "swan shot" is, to my knowledge, not documented.
What IS documented, by a numer of sources, is CAST ROUND BALL OF ABOUT 25 CALIBER, cast in gang moulds.
Go to this URL to see the type of mould used to cast swan shot. Scroll down to the last image.[url] http://www.users.qwest.net/~cannonmike/[/url]
I have digital photos of "swan droppings" and true swan shot. I gotta learn how to post photos. :cursing:
J.D.
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"Swan shot is about .250 diameter, CAST round ball used for hunting large waterfowl, like swans."
Thank you JD I was about to scream when the tadpole thing come uo again, please use the tear drop, make it, but do not call it swan shot, swan shot has been a cast shot like buck shot from the ealiest times of its mention on records.Hopefull this misconception will die if anyone will pay attention, and vendors will stop propegating the myth.
Thank you JD I was about to scream when the tadpole thing come uo again, please use the tear drop, make it, but do not call it swan shot, swan shot has been a cast shot like buck shot from the ealiest times of its mention on records.Hopefull this misconception will die if anyone will pay attention, and vendors will stop propegating the myth.
As No Deer said I do make the stuff. In fact I just made up about 25# of it over the last couple of evenings and will be bagging it this weekend. Drop me a PM or an email and I can get into all the specifics on it rather than doing the whole sale thing on here(I wish the classifieds were open again).
As for what to call the stuff...Most correct would likely be drip shot, it is kind of tear drop shaped and about the size of #4 shot in diameter but it is twice as long as it is wide. Swan shot most correctly (as several others have pointed out) is realy a largish (Hmmm is that really a word?) size shot that depending on who you talk to is somewhere in size between modern T size and #3 buckshot. A third type that sometimes gets looped into the same "catagory" is rupert shot, it is mostly round but usually has a dimple in it (odd looking stuff). The stuff I usually produce is the tear drop shaped stuff. Suprisingly it works much better than one whould expect out of most guns. Below is a picture of the stuff that many people call "swan shot" but would be better termed as "drip shot". I hope that last makes sense.
As for what to call the stuff...Most correct would likely be drip shot, it is kind of tear drop shaped and about the size of #4 shot in diameter but it is twice as long as it is wide. Swan shot most correctly (as several others have pointed out) is realy a largish (Hmmm is that really a word?) size shot that depending on who you talk to is somewhere in size between modern T size and #3 buckshot. A third type that sometimes gets looped into the same "catagory" is rupert shot, it is mostly round but usually has a dimple in it (odd looking stuff). The stuff I usually produce is the tear drop shaped stuff. Suprisingly it works much better than one whould expect out of most guns. Below is a picture of the stuff that many people call "swan shot" but would be better termed as "drip shot". I hope that last makes sense.
I know of the"drip" shot but have yet to see anything of a period source to support it, the Rupert shot is a drip shot of sorts, falling a short ways after flowing thru a coal filled perforated vessel but was of a smaller type than the swan shot, My best guess is the tadpole type stuff historical speaking if it ever was done was a homemade attempt at shot making by those lacking the knowledge of the Rupert method or the proper drop heigth needed for later tower method,
Perhaps I am mistaken, but I recall that Rupert shot required arsenic to create enough surface tension to mold quickly, with the dimple caused be contact between still hot (or molten) lead with the water, but it could be produced with a fall of only a few inches, whereas the Drop shot was solid and fairly round when it hit due to being dropped from a greater height (eliminating the need for arsenic, but requiring the construction of tall shot towers). I'm not into playing with aresenic, so I made a bunch of shot from varying altitudes... the higher you get, the more rounded the shot. Tragically, Shot Tower State Park in VA. declined my offer of a living history demonstration there :nono: , so maximum height thus far is about 30 feet... some usuable shot, much misshapen scrap to be recast another day. BTW, Shot Tower State Park in Virgina can provide you with a great deal of information on early shot making, and since the tower is still standing it is a great place to visit.
Plumebleu ,
I have about 3 lb of drip shot left from a 5 lb batch I made a coupla years ago. And yes, it is deadly on smallish game. IMHO, patterns are not very consistent, but whin it hits, the results are devestating.
For those who are interested, according to Hamilton, the process for producing round, drop shot, like that available today, was patented in the mid to late 1760's. That means that modern bird shot is period correct for the late 1760's on.
J.D.
I have about 3 lb of drip shot left from a 5 lb batch I made a coupla years ago. And yes, it is deadly on smallish game. IMHO, patterns are not very consistent, but whin it hits, the results are devestating.
For those who are interested, according to Hamilton, the process for producing round, drop shot, like that available today, was patented in the mid to late 1760's. That means that modern bird shot is period correct for the late 1760's on.
J.D.
Chuck Thom
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Nick Barber from Michigan sold it awhile backI think he got $8 per pound
PlumebleuÂ
thanks for correcting me and explaining the diffrence. I was familiar with the shot tower in VAand Baltimore still has one and philly still has one standing. I was getting confused because they said what they were making fell from such a distance that it formed a round shot.But my grandfather told me of a small shot tower here in NC that made the teardrop shaped shot and he called it swanshot. Iwill get in touch with you off line after the weekend about the drip shot. thanks
Alan Ashworth
thanks for correcting me and explaining the diffrence. I was familiar with the shot tower in VAand Baltimore still has one and philly still has one standing. I was getting confused because they said what they were making fell from such a distance that it formed a round shot.But my grandfather told me of a small shot tower here in NC that made the teardrop shaped shot and he called it swanshot. Iwill get in touch with you off line after the weekend about the drip shot. thanks
Alan Ashworth
Several outfits have been butting heads over the actual size of "swan shot" for some time. When drop shot came in around 1790, and even the Rupert-shot before that, things get a bit more standard. Lyman came out with the magic number of .20" in the 1950's and after another half-century, others now seem to agree. In U.S. parlance, that's "T" size. To fine it you'll have to go to someone like Ballistic Products for it.
To add to the confusion, there was bird shot, swan shot, bustard shot, royal shot and half-royal shot...good luck finding someone who kows all the answers. :winking:
To add to the confusion, there was bird shot, swan shot, bustard shot, royal shot and half-royal shot...good luck finding someone who kows all the answers. :winking:
