Southern barrel length

[Longbow68]

Hello folks
I'm trying to iron out the final details on a southern mtn. kit I'm fixing to order and have a simple question.Will a 38" swamped barrel be totally incorrect for these style rifles?I will be hunting with this rifle and possibly a little reinacting(sp?).I have no idea why I'm hung up on this size I geuss it's because of all the talk on how well they handle(I dunno).Thanks,Longbow

 

[paulvallandigham]

NO, you are going to love a 38" barrel on your gun, as long as the gun is made so it balances well. Make sure the Pitch, and the LOP is right for you.

 

[Longbow68]

Thanks Paul.It's a done deal then.I have been reading and gathering info. on these rifles and haven't run across alot of size and descriptions of barrels.Thanks again!Chris

 

[Zonie]

Longbow
If your going to order a semi finished stock from Pecatonica River, Track of the Wolf or any similar company call them first before ordering a barrel.

Some of the Southern style stocks they have don't normally come with a swamped barrel channel and because these guns are very slender some of the larger caliber swamped barrels may be too wide for the amount of wood that is left on the stock for finishing.

I'm not saying you can't get a stock but it's a good idea to call and tell them what your plans are. :thumbsup:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

One of the characteristics of these rifles is their long and graceful lines. If you get much below forty inches you can wind up with a sort of stubby look that isn't very pretty. I don't know why you feel that you need a 38" barrel and it is your gun, but a 40" or longer barrel isn't going to weigh much more. I have a mountain rifle with a 43" barrel and it has a fine balance and carries comfortably all day long. The barrel is straight, not swamped and the rifle weighs about seven pounds. The longer barrel has never been a problem for me in the woods and the longer sighting plane is a useful bonus.

 

[Birddog6]

As I have said Many times before, go someplace & shoulder one......... You are just guessing & believe me, I guessed at them for Years & was always dissatisfied with the results. :shake: I started going to places & actually shouldering what I was wanting & found out what it means when one fits :shocked2: cause then I had about 20 that didn't fit to get rid of :haha: I could have saved allot of money by just taking a day or two of looking & driving 200 miles, shouldered about 75 rifles, had a great time doing it & being away for a day or to & etc. :rotf:

I think you would be surprised what a 42 or 44" barrel in one would feel like. A "B" weight barrel in a southern mountain rifle is pretty light. And a 13/16" barrel in 42" with a .40 or .45 cal is pretty light too. I am building a Tenn. with a 13/16 x 42" in .50 cal. right now & I was really surprised on how it balanced. Not as well as a swamped barrel, but very acceptable.

Also, as mentioned, you need to talk to he vender/stockmaker & see if he does the barrel channel you want. IMHO, unless you really know how to make things work on building a rifle, best to get ALL the parts at one place, with exception of the lock. I suggest ya use a Chambers flintlock on the rifle regardless of what ya build. Make sure the stock will accept the lock you are wanting to use. :hmm:

Good Luck ! :thumbsup:

PS: The only way I would use a 38" swamped barrel was if it were a small bore in A or B weight to make it look slimmer. As mentioned above, a 38" barrel will make the rifle look stubby & a southern rifle should be long..... 40" barrel will work but a 42-44-46" is better, IMHO.

 

[T.C.Albert]

Honestly, the trend for barrel makers is making them available in longer lengths than was available in the past because the full stock originals were usually long too...a 42 inch barrel was the longest commonly available for years on all but custom orders, and enough gun makers were wanting longer barrels so that you can now get 44 and even 48 inch barrels with out too much trouble.

Sorry to say it, but 38 inches is more for jeagers and plains guns than southern mountain rifles from what I have seen...just my two cents worth...
TCA

 

[Mike Brooks]

If historical accuracy means anything, longer is better. I have access to one of the largest southern mountain rifle collections in the country. I found after spending some time with that collection that true "Mountain built" rifles tend to have about 48" barrels that are slightly swamped at either end, at least 1" to 1 1/8" at the breech and muzzle, small calibered (.36 to .45) and the finished gun weighs 12 to 14lbs. These are heavy guns, They hold well if you can get a shot off in 10 seconds or so. when carried they balance about 8" ahead of the lower forestock. There are exceptions of course.

 

[Longbow68]

I would like to thank every one of you for your replies.Now you folks have really got me rethinking this.The rifle will be one of PR's "southern mtn."I have spoke with them about the swamped barrel and they suggested the s.mtn kit because of a beefier forestock.You folks have seriously got me leanin' towards a 42" now. :hmm: Thanks again,Longbow

 

[Mike Brooks]

Why would it have a "beefier forestock"? Should be the same as any other gun....

 

[tg]

"
Why would it have a "beefier forestock"? Should be the same as any other gun.... "

THat is a good question, I hope there is an answer, I will repeat again for the gentleman who started this post that very often the bulider/parts supplier is often the worst place to look for information of a historical nature as to what was or wasn't done on the original guns.

There are some exceptions and you will find some who are not only good builders/parts vendors but also well studied gun historians.Mike, Roy and a few others of this caliber are right here on this forum,few of those who advertize and do a lot of volume fall itno that niche.

 

[Longbow68]

Mike and tg
The only thing I can really tell you is Dick made the comment that the S. mtn.would be more appropriate.I thought maybe with swamped barrel it would need a little more width in the forestock.I apologize if I sounded stupid.Thanks fellas,Longbow

 

[tg]

I didn't see anything stupid about any of your posts, and I don't follow the gentleman who gave you the information on what the gun would or wouldn't look like, I am not much into the later flint period, hopefully someone here who has a good depth of that time period can help you get some of the issues worked out, with some pics that we can all follow and log away for future use
the amount of info on such questions from forum members is remarkably high, and can easily be put forth in a polite manner that will offend no one, if the poster is willing to do so, take care and good luck finding the info you request, it is out there only a few keyboard strikes away, I think it will surface shortly.

 

[DEWB]

Hey Longbow, I recently finished a rifle with a southern mountain stock from pecatonica river. The reason I went with that one is because its the only one that they had that you could get in a 15/16 barrel channel and I wanted a .54. I don't know what caliber you want but you should probably check with Dick to see if it would work. It might only work with an A weight swamped barrel and that would be a pretty small bore. I had thought about an A weight in a .40 but after talking to some folks I think I would have to go with a B weight because there isn't that much metal left and they said that that can cause problems. My .54 is 36 in. long and balances pretty nice and its not to heavy for packing around all day. I know most of them were longer in the old days but its not out of reason to think that some of them could have been shortened alittle. Dew

 

[Zonie]

That's the reason I recommended talking to Dick at Pecatonica River.

His catalog says the Tennessee Classic, Mountain and the Southern Mountain will take a 13/16 or a 7/8 inch octagon barrel.
As both of these are substantially less than the 1.00 octagon breech of a "B" weight swamped barrel I figured that he would know if fitting one would work.

If it were me, I would call him one more time to see if he was recommending the Southern based on a "A" weight barrel (.32, .36 or .40 cal) or a "B" weight barrel (.40, .45 or .50 cal).

I suspect the "C" weight barrels (.50 or .54 cal) 1 1/16 inch breech and the 7/8 inch muzzle might be a bit too large for the amount of wood on the pre-carve, but maybe not?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

You didn't sound stupid at all. What caliber are you planning on? Most of these rifles had straight barrels, or a "swamp" effect that is a bit different than what we see today. A straight barrel in a size appropriate to the bore--say 13/16" for a .45 caliber-- won't be a great burden. 3/4" barrels are available in the smaller bores, maybe even up to .40 caliber. An added benefit of using the smallest safe size barrel is a slender forearm.

Of course, if you are after a chunk gun then all the above is irrelevant. Check out Toad Hall for some information on them.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Mike and tg
The only thing I can really tell you is Dick made the comment that the S. mtn.would be more appropriate.I thought maybe with swamped barrel it would need a little more width in the forestock.I apologize if I sounded stupid.Thanks fellas,Longbow

Nothing stupid here. I was just a bit abrupt is all, I have been told this before. :wink: The point I was trying to make is the fore stock stays consistent in size, only about 1/16" wood on either side of the barrel no matter how big or small the barrel is. Go with the swamped barrel if you can, great savings in weight.
Most of the originals I have handled are swamped, but not like they are today. the old mountain rifle barrels had a nearly identical flare or "swamp" at either end that tapered fairly fast to a long straight center section. On most of these it looked as though you could flip the barrel end to end and it would still fit in the stock inlet. :shocked2: Most of these barrels are quite long, big diameter small bored and HEAVY. Finished guns weigh around 12 to 14 lbs. There are exceptions of course.

 

[DEWB]

I didn't know that they made any of their southern stocks in a 15/16 until I talked to dick on the phone. As you stated in their catalog they don't show anything that big. And I don't know for sure but I doubt if a B weight barrel would fit any of their southern stocks. But it would be cool if they did. I am still wanting a .40 and I think it would be cool to have a Tenn. or some kind of southern rifle with a swamp on it but I am not counting out a straight barrel. I havn't ever handled a rifle with a swamp on it but I would like to. I want it for small game and target shooting and Iv'e heard some folks say that a straight barrel is better for target and some folks use a swamped barrel. As for me I don't know but I guess the debate will go on. Dew

 

[Longbow68]

Hey fellas
Thanks for all the great info. and clarifying things for me.When Dick and I spoke on the phone the other day I asked about him specifically about using a "B" weight(50 cal.)swamped barrel on one of his Tenn. stocks.He said that it would be fine but the southern mtn. stock would work better.He didn't elaborate as to why so I just took his word,besides I like the s.mtn. just as well.I think I will go with the 42" barrel in "B" weight(50 cal.).

What are you folks opinion on the best lock?Right now I'm leaning towards a late ketland.Thanks again for all the responses.You folks are the best!Longbow

 

[jim m]

a chambers late ketland would be an excelent choice, and in my very limited experience would be the correct style for a southern gun. enjoy your journey it will be a lot of fun