southern mountian rifle details

[WyomingWhitetail]

I'm hoping I can get some guidance or just basic discussion on the details of late flint period southern mountain rifles. The interest obviously stems from the fact that I'm working on my first rifle right now and the basic inspiration is a very late flint period mountain rifle, but I would also enjoy the discussion in general.

The details on my rifle are a 13/16 straight barrel in 45, a chambers late ketland lock and a precarved stock that I traded into. The stock has a rounded cheek piece instead of the traditional square one which is why I'm shooting for a very late flint period style or even a flint built well into the percussion period. Now I don't know if a flint mountain rifle was ever built with a rounded check piece but I'm going with it. I also know that most southern mtn barrels were much larger but it seems to be generally accepted as allowable to use the slim barrels on these rifles.

Some of the areas I would like to discuss would be

number of lock bolts, due to the 13/16 barrel I'm using I think I'm going to use only one lock bolt. It seems that this did occur but was not real common. When using one lock bolt are there ever any lugs or hooks or other hidden fastener at the front of the lock plate?

Use of wood screws. Were wood screws common on later southern mtn rifles in the tangs, trigger plates, and trigger guards. It seems the preferred method was a through bolt for the tang, but wood screws are not unheard of. Just curious if this trait might be more or less prevalent on the SMR.

With trigger guards, from what I have read it seems the later guns were mostly screwed on vs pinned lugs?

The attachment of the trigger plate I imagine would depend on the tang attachment.

Tang final shape? My tang will not be an overly long tang or a lollipop tang. It seems other late flint guns typically tapered to a point vs the earlier flared and square ended tangs. What about single bolt tangs on SMR?

Triggers, from what I have read and heard it seems that a double set trigger is almost required on a SMR. I would like to entertain the thought of a simple trigger on my rifle for hunting purposes. Are there specific time periods for a simple trigger pinned through the wood, vs simple trigger with a plate lug, vs double set triggers.

If anybody has any pointers or general construction suggestions for forged trigger gaurds and buttplates I would be interested as well. I think I may attempt to forge out a trigger guard and butt plate this weekend instead of using the cast ones I have.

Again just looking forward to some general discussion on these details. I'm not holding myself to a particularly strict HC/PC build but I do enjoy discussion and learning something new.

 

[Chowmif16]

I'm not anywhere near an expert on southern mountain rifles, so I'll only mention that you might not need to let the rounded cheek piece drive your build.
There is probably plenty of wood there within the rounded cheek piece to make the straight kind.
You might also ask about the straight barrel. Were'nt they usually swamped? What length barrel are you using?

Cheers,
Chowmi

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

from what I know most southern rifles typically had slightly swamped heavy barrels. At this point I like the way the rifle feels and handles so I'm going to run with the barrel. I have thought about changing the cheek piece as I think there would be enough wood.

 

[Chowmif16]

If you like the barrel and are happy with straight, then go with it.
I get the impression (not expert) that heavy straight barrels are not prevalent on southern mountain rifles. The photos I've seen are of slender rifles in smaller calibers, as in mostly under .45.
Research may well prove me wrong.
Food for thought.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

I'm in no way an expert either and it does seem the mtn rifles were very slender. I seem to remember reading a discussion somewhere saying that most of the mtn rifles had somewhat heavier barrels than is typical today and that most of them were very mildly swamped. I may be missing remembering something though. Regardless this build is getting the straight thin barrel. Future builds may get a swarped barrel.

 

[Chowmif16]

You sound like a man with a plan! I like it.
Thin is the way to go.

I would only add that if your memory is correct and you heard that SMR's had a heavy barrel,compared to today, well then, that could be said of every muzzleloader. !

I won't comment further because that's about all I know of southern Mountain Rifles!

Have fun with your build, and post pictures.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

That may very well be true of today's barrels being lighter than originals universally. Im still a beginner and haven't ever had the chance to handle originals so I don't have a lot to go on.

Hopefully somebody has some experience with mtn guns and can chime in on some of the other details.

 

[excess650]

I've seen a number of original flintlocks with single lock bolts. Its my understanding that they were made after the advent of percussion which often used only a single bolt.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Jim kibler has an excellent example of an SMR. Just purchased one of his kits and I'm currently, anxiously awaiting it's arrival.

From talking with him, he takes great care to ensure details are not left out. His pattern is based off an original late SMR. From the swamped barrel to the hardware he's got it covered.

From my own investigating, I've found the vast majority of these rifles were of the same styling and utilized swamped barrels.

Personally, having handled and shot a swamped barrel... there's a reason those long slender barrels would need to be swamped! No other way to go IMO, can't wait to get my SMR!

 

[54ball]

I've seen a number of original flintlocks with single lock bolts. Its my understanding that they were made after the advent of percussion which often used only a single bolt.

Absolutely incorrect!

While a single lock bolt became a very common feature in the percussion era, you'll see the single lock bolt circa 1800-1810s. Never say never with originals, I'm sure someone could dig up a very early gun (1700s) with a single lock bolt. My first build was an 1810 era Gillespie NC Rifle with a single lock bolt. Twin rifles still exist today, both close to the same pattern. One has a single bolt, the other has two.

So the single lock bolt can be a Golden Age feature...maybe typical, or common of the 2nd or 3rd generation of American gun builders....the farmer or rural mountain smiths of the early 19th Century.

The rounded cheek piece is found on some Southern rifles. Research the Wiley Higgins Gamecock Rifle. This rifle shows a lot of Carolina influence. Soddy Daisys also had kind of round cheeks. You see some with...No cheek piece at all.

Screws or pins could be used on triggerguards with screws being fairly common, sometimes both methods were used, pinned front ,screwed rear and vice versa.

Sometimes barrel tangs were secured with a screw. Sometimes the triggers were simply geld in by the triggerguard, screwed or pinned.

Keep this in mind....
From 1780 to 1900 there were thousands of rifles built by hundreds of families from KY down to VA WVA to TN NC to GA AL and MS. So lots of choices and possibilities. Maybe too many. :shocked2:

 

[54ball]

The rifles themselves.....

I'm no expert ..don't claim to be but lets discuss this heavy barrel thing.

As I said above, you'll see all kinds of rifles with a mix a features, here research will help a lot to narrow down some things.

Warning...Pure Conjecture

From the rifles I have seen there's two, maybe three types I have handled...

Woods runners... can be somewhat early... These rifles handle good. While not really light weight they handle well.

Target rifles....can be somewhat late....these rifle have very heavy barrels some weigh more than 20 lbs. another word for them is ..Chunk Gun.

Dual Role...by far the most common rifle I have seen. These rifles are heavy but are still capable of being taken afield...If you are man enough. I'm building such a rifle now but it will have the heft of a "Woods Runner". The original was heavy barreled and had a dished or worn forstock. From a saddle pommel? :idunno:

Remember Robin Hood, the archery tournament? That was a big deal. The same thing happens with the VA Riflemen doing shooting expositions as they headed North to Boston in 1776.

So target shoots were a big deal socially. Turkey and meat shoots are still common for fundraising to this very day in the South.

So since a rifle was so expensive and you could have one what would it be? A target rifle or a hunting rifle....What about one that does both well.

 

[okawbow]

I have an original southern rifle barrel. It is 43" long and about 35 caliber. It is slightly swamped and a little over 15/16" at the breech. The swamp is about 1/16", and it flares to about 15/16". It has a lollipop tang.

Remarkably, there are still traces of rust bluing left on the barrel. It would make a + 10# rifle.

 

[hanshi]

Can't really comment on original rifle specifics but if "most" rifles of that period had "X" barrels; yours can be one of those that doesn't.

 

[don hepler]

I just bought a SMR that was unfired, but built several years ago. The gun builder, now retired, had a good knowledge of SMR's. Here is some pics, that I just took, a few minutes ago.

 

[don hepler]

Here is the other.


One screw in lock plate. The rifle has a 7/8 barrel, that is 42". It is a .40 cal. straight barrel. I have another rifle that has a .36 cal. with 13/16 barrel, 38", that balances as good as a large swamped barrel. The builder told me that straight barrels were common to Appalachian Mountain Rifles in Southwest Va.

I have a 50 cal. swamped, which is a wonderful handling rifle, but small caliber's can get by without being swamped. I would have preferred it to be swamped, but the cost is considerably less, for a straight, if you're having the work done by someone else.

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

Good looking rifle. Coul I get some more pics of the trigger gaurd. I've been thinking of forging a trigger gaurd. That one looks a little simpler then some of them found on mtn rifles.

 

[don hepler]

Thanks....yes, tomorrow I will see if I can get some pics of the trigger guard.

 

[54ball]

Link Robin Hale Tennessee Rifles

 

[Ames]

Wow. Thanks for the read. :thumbsup:

 

[WyomingWhitetail]

thanks for the link to that article, a lot of good information there.