Springfield Smoothbore?

[Rebel]

Rat, ya keep sniffin' them Hoppe fumes and that last tooth is gonna fall out too. And i ain't got a speck of rust in any of my guns. That is what WD-40 is for. You use it after the WATER to prevent rust. ::

 

[pappydean]

KanawhaRanger,
What would be the proper thread pitch for the nipple of an Austrian Lorenz lock?

As an update, the bore has turned out to be 20 gauge. Was just a little large at the muzzle.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Pappy, I wish I could be more help on this one, but I honestly am not sure. Being a Continental weapon, it could have been metric. I don't know if the Austrians were using metric measurements at this time or not. The French appear to have been using it, as their bore measurements were often expressed in mm. The Lorenz that I had was an oddball. It was obviously a '54, but was a flintlock! The lockplate was stamped 859 (1859)but appeared to be original flint. Apparently it was originally a Consol-Augustin tubelock which used a primer holder/firing pin mechanism that was held shut with a frizzen spring. The tube primer was inserted into the touchhole. Someone converted it by replacing the cover with a frizzen and the hammer by a flint cock. There was no bolster or nipple. Many were imported to the northern states and had to be converted to our percussion system because it was hard to keep these special primers in stock. Why a Consol lock was on a '54 Lorenz, I can't explain. As for yours, I have read that many Continental guns had to be re-threaded in the bolster to accept U.S threaded nipples, so I wouldn't be surprised if it is metric. Also, if you can, it might be a good idea to remove the breechplug and see if the barrel was equipped with a "tige", which is a stem attached to the breech. It protruded into the barrel for about 1 1/2 inches. A round ball was rammed against this to upset it into the rifling. Some of the rifles were equipped with this. The Austrian muskets were not. This thing can cause problems in cleaning and was objected to for this reason. The original caliber was .54 for the Lorenz, but many were bored to .58 and re-rifled. That fact, and corrosion and wear would explain the 20 gauge bore. I know this is a lengthy answer to a simple question and I appologize for that. Especially when I'm not sure of the answer. I just happened to think of some other points. I do like to talk about CW period guns. We probably should move this topic to another category though if we want to continue it. We've kinda drifted away from the smoothbore aspect of it. I do have more printed info about Austrian guns from this period and if you need anything else I'll keep my eyes open on the percussion forum if that's the best place to do it. Have you got to shoot that fowler yet?

 

[pappydean]

KanawhaRanger,
Yes, I have fired it. Five times with PRB. Started with 50 gr. of Goex Clear Shot as I currently have no black nor is any available locally. Then worked up to 70 gr. Fired 2 loads of shot, 60 gr. with 1 oz. and 70 gr. with 1 1/4 oz. Afraid to shot any heavier until I find a tighter fitting nipple. It shows good potential though. The nipple that was in it was a #11 1/4-28. I replaced it with a musket nipple same thread. It is a little loose until the last round. I noticed oversized nipples on Track of the Wolf. May order a couple to see if this helps.
Thanks for all the great info. It's good to communicate with someone knowledgeable in these CW guns.
P. S. I have taken pictures and downloaded them into my computer. Is there a way to put them on this site?

 

[Tumblernotch]

Hey Pappy, Sounds like a fun piece to shoot. Do be careful about a loose nipple though, it could blow out. I'm half a mind (that's about all that's left) to take that old Colt contract musket barrel I have and make a shotgun out of it. It's shot out to about 20 ga. too. I'm glad I could help a little. I'm lucky enough to have a few books to refer to. I would like to see some pictures of it. I don't know how to upload to this site. I'm sure Musketman or Claude could tell you how. I'd like to know myself. I ought to get started with my shotgun but I'm in the process of repairing the breech on my Whitworth. I wanna get it smokin' again. Have fun with your Austrian fowler!
:thumbsup:

 

[RussB]

pappydean....check your Personal Messages. Perhaps I can help you upload those pictures too.

Musketman used to have some good instructions at

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=Forum

Russ

 

[pappydean]

Finely got pictures posted. This is #1.

 

[pappydean]

#2 and #3

 

[pappydean]

Here's #4

 

[pappydean]

Finely, #5. Here she is guys, tell me what you think!

 

[Tumblernotch]

Hey Pappy! That's a good lookin' gun! I enlarged some of the pictures but I still couldn't make out the marks on the barrel. It's interesting how they filed and marked the bottom. If you can read any of the markings, I found two names you can look for. Pirko and Fruwirth . Both of these were gunmakers in Vienna. I was beginning to believe that what you have is a Jaeger carbine since it used flat barrel wedges instead of barrel bands. Reading closer I see that the Jaeger's barrel has a 26 inch octagon barrel turned round the last 4 1/2 inches from the muzzle for a bayonet. Yours is obviously round. The quality of the stock is very nice and is similiar to the one that I had except mine was lighter in color. I do wish I still had mine. But, I wouldn't have my Whitworth if I hadn't done some tradin'. And by the way, I finished repairing it today and it's ready to do it's thang. Just need to cast some new slugs fer it. Again, you did alright. Enjoy that little beauty!
:thumbsup: :applause:

 

[LouieLaStrap]

surplus civil war springfields were converted from percussion to flint, and sold in africa after the civil war. I have seen one and read refence to them also. They cut off the bolster and removed the percussion hammer and mounted a flint hammer and frizzen on the original lock plate all were either boared smoth or left rifled . several thousand were converted this way and exported. If I can be of any more help on this let me know.

 

[LouieLaStrap]

yes you have an austrian lorenze cut off musket, the barrel has been shortened at the breech a few inches and the breech re instaled with the barrel upside down, so the sight mortice is on the bottom. Original cal. was 54 to 56 four grove rifleing about 225.000 were imported during the civil war, yours was made into a shotgun after the war. If I can bee of more help let me know.

 

[pappydean]

Hello all,
Just thought I would update you on the Loraine. Hadn't been able to get a PRB to shot with any kind of accuracy. Bore just to pitted and oversize, .652, with tight and loose spots. :boohoo: Took it to a machinist friend who does some gunsmithing. He had a .6719 reamer. We ran this reamer through and wound up with a barrel that looks almost like new with only two very small pits close to the muzzle! :: Tolorences are within .001 all the way through! :front: I have ball and wads for a 15ga. on the way from TOTW. Hope to shoot it this weekend. I will let everyone know how it does.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Good luck Pappy! I'm sure it'll do real good. If it doesn't, well, you've got a dandy shotgun there. Either way you ought to come out smellin' like a rose. BTW, how's the N-SSA shoots a comin'? Is your boy beatin' you old guys yet?
Have a good'un! :: :front:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Pappy, never mind what I said about your boy beatin' you guys in the N-SSA. I had a brain f..t and got you mixed up with someone else. Still wish you luck with the Austrian!
:redface: :redface: :front:

 

[pappydean]

Good evening commrades,
Ball and shot finally arrived monday! First three shot group at 25 yds., off hand, was 3". :thumbsup: Load was 80 grs. Goex 3F, .648 ball, and .020 patch. Point of aim was right on. Fired 2 shots, 50 yds., at an 8" steel plate with 2 hits !! I still can't believe I did that without a rear sight!
Next, I tried 80 grs. with 1 1/2 oz. #6 shot. Will take a gobbler every time at 25 yds. I will have to work on it some before shooting beyond that. But hey, turkey season is still open 9 more days! :front: I'm going huntin!

P. S. Sure wish old guns could talk. I'd like to hear its past 2 life stories and wonder if it likes being reborn again for the 3rd time?