Is there any chance that the top has come off of your powder measure plunger? You may be pouring in a whole lot of powder. That happened to one of our members a while back. Something is wrong.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
St. Louis Hawken recoil
- Thread starter JonBishop
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
double check that load! If it were me, I would weigh my powder charge....It won't be dead on, but close enough to tell if something is wrong with your measure.
Most people think of loads for a 54 caliber rifle should be using 2fg powder. Going to 3fg powder picks up up about 10 to 15% more energy and the going to Swiss powder which is even more energetic than our familiar GOEX will pick up another 15% of energy. For the thought experiment, the 50 grain (volume) load of 3Fg Swiss powder will be just about the equivalent of 65 grains volume of 2Fg GOEX. Still not overly stout for an 11 pound rifle. I would be verifying my volume measure against a powder scale. Swiss volume measure should be very close to the weight measured on a scale.
I had a situation where a member of my gun club was using a volume measure that was designed to be used with a cut off valve, but the valve was long gone missing. The stub that fit into his measure accounted for about 20 grains when we compared his volume measured loads to the scale readings. So be sure to check your volume measure against a powder scale.
I've turned powder measures for loads and calculated the volume to weight to create the cavity. The picture is of a 60 grain 2Fg measure and the weight as shown on my powder scale.
When your upper bicep where is your muzzle.
It should be off your opposite shoulder. If your upper arm but in front like a modren gun your going to feel it more.
Tight across the body
It should be off your opposite shoulder. If your upper arm but in front like a modren gun your going to feel it more.
Tight across the body
Thanks for all the replies. The flask I use to fill my powder measure holds 30grs in the nozzle. My powder measure reads that as 30grs. When it comes to recoil, I’ve been shooting hi-powered rifles for 25 years. I’m using a .530 ball and .10 patch with mink oil. It loads easy enough. Could there be an obstruction close to the breech that’s not allowing the ball to seat? I have no borescope to check. I can only go by what I see. And I don’t see anything. That doesn’t mean nothing’s there. The ball not seating seems to me the most logical answer. Also for reference, 70grs fffg Swiss in .50 flintlock has no discernible kick. Also, I could be holding wrong.
Thanks, Jon
Thanks, Jon
@JonBishop, where are you feeling the kick? Is it on your bicep or is your cheek getting slapped. When I shoot rifles with a lot of recoil, I do get bruising. Where is your bruise?
This brings us down to how you are holding the rifle or the stock design and you are not compatible.
This brings us down to how you are holding the rifle or the stock design and you are not compatible.
Rock Home Isle
54 Cal.
This happened to me at the range a couple weeks ago.
I’m working on load development for my .40 calibre, and my dad is having troubles getting his .36 calibre Seneca to group at 50 yards…so I volunteer to take a few shots and see what I can do.
He puts the .36 down and starts shooting his .58 calibre. I ask him what his load is, and he says the brass measure on the bench by the tool box…I pick up the measure, and use it to load the gun…when I shoot it, the recoil was just brutal. OMG, I was not expecting that…
I hadn’t put 25 grains of fffg into that .36 calibre, I had put 75 grains of fffg into it. He’d put a cloth over the powder measure after wiping his flint…I saw one measure, and used it.
Dang dad…really???
Hi, Grenadier1758. The bruise was on the upper bicep. An update though. It seems I do have an obstruction near the breech. I use next caliber down jags for my muzzle loaders. So I put the .54 jag on my range rod and it got hung up about 5/16” from the breech face. I measured this by using my .50 jag of the same length. I had to tap it out with a mallet. Looks like I’ve got some honing to do. Don’t worry fellas, I’m familiar with doing this. It’s odd that the bore is so shiny and I can’t see any sort of crud ring. I hope it’s this easy to fix. But this is what it seems to be. Again thanks for the replies every one.
Jon
Jon
Chambered breech?
I believe so. It’s hard to tell. It looks flat, just too hard for me to tell. It is a two piece plug/tang though.
Jon
Jon
Could the ‘obstruction’ be the diameter change of the chambered breech?
Are you using a heavy conical? I hold the rifle firm allowing no free travel in
recoil. Any looseness allows the stock to slam you. They sell and you can make pads
cheap--if needed. Something seems unspoken about the rifle and/or the load--or
you have a shoulder that is weak.
recoil. Any looseness allows the stock to slam you. They sell and you can make pads
cheap--if needed. Something seems unspoken about the rifle and/or the load--or
you have a shoulder that is weak.
I was led to believe that a “chambered breech” in what that entails, is much smaller than bore size. A .50 jag went further down than the .54 jag. I think it’s a hardened crud ring from a 40 year old load left in there before I bought it. It was unloaded when I bought it. Again this is a St. Louis Hawken made in the early 80s. At the Hawken shop. I do not know if they used chambered breeches.
Jon
Jon
Wouldn't 50 grains of powder bring you well above the 5/16" from the breech face that the jag is hanging up? If that was the case, wouldn't the patch and ball be above the ring that you think is restricting things? 
EDIT....I just read about the chambered breech. Strike reply.
EDIT....I just read about the chambered breech. Strike reply.
DuncNZ
54 Cal.
It is a patent breach , this has a chamber which is smaller than the bore , it is intended to increase the efficiency of the load , and adds nothing to recoil .
Recoil is expressed in Newtons third law " every action has an equal and opposite reaction " , ie it it the weight of ejectant = (powder , wad, ball patch,) X velocity at the muzzle verses the weight of the firearm . Recoil moves the firearm to the rear and if held , tends to rotate it upwards about the butt plate Felt recoil is to do with actual recoil and stock design and fit .
I used to shoot 100 gr of Goex fffg with a 530 patched round ball and a felt over powder wad , this gave me exceptional match winning accuracy out to 100 m .
There are a lot of mathematical formulas on the net for calculating recoil
Recoil is expressed in Newtons third law " every action has an equal and opposite reaction " , ie it it the weight of ejectant = (powder , wad, ball patch,) X velocity at the muzzle verses the weight of the firearm . Recoil moves the firearm to the rear and if held , tends to rotate it upwards about the butt plate Felt recoil is to do with actual recoil and stock design and fit .
I used to shoot 100 gr of Goex fffg with a 530 patched round ball and a felt over powder wad , this gave me exceptional match winning accuracy out to 100 m .
There are a lot of mathematical formulas on the net for calculating recoil
Yes, it would make sense that it’s below that spot. I’ll need to take some smaller things to know if it is a chambered breech. I can do those tests tomorrow. I am very capable of unbreeching this rifle. I am a builder. Unmentionables and muzzleloaders. Please, no one berate me on unscrewing a breech plug. I have the tools to do this. But I think I can do this with some honing of the barrel. 1200 grit on the end of the range rod. On an unmentionable it would be the same. Just not all the way through. I will see this weekend. Thanks for the replies.Wouldn't 50 grains of powder bring you well above the 5/16" from the breech face that the jag is hanging up? If that was the case, wouldn't the patch and ball be above the ring that you think is restricting things?
EDIT....I just read about the chambered breech. Strike reply.
Jon
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2021
- Messages
- 449
- Reaction score
- 850
I hope you get it figured out, the Hawken Shop rifles are nice guns and should be a pleasure to shoot. Pull the Barrel off and give it a good hot water ( and your favorite mixture) cleaning and the crud should come out.
morehops52
50 Cal.
Had the same problem except I shoot 90 gr 2 or 3F out of my .54 GPH. Yes, it delivers a whoopon'. I found two ways to tame the beast(s). 1. I got a good slip-on recoil pad and that helped a good bit. But for range work I would be done after 3-5 rounds until I bought my 14 lb. Led Sled. Now I can shoot 10-15 rounds. When you have back/neck problems as one ages you find solutions to problems you never had before.
