Steel for handgonnes?

[BillinOregon]

Simply have to have one, and thought about seeing if I can get a local machine shop to make me a simple one. But what would be a good, safe and easily available steel to specify? I am thinking a 1-inch diameter length of rod would be a snesible size for a .50 gonne.

 

[Stumpkiller]

It's a spooky thing to get into recommending barrel steels for homemade guns, but I know AISI 12L14 steel rounds have been used to make rifle barrels (leave a minimum 25% for barrel walls); though it is heated to relieve stress after machining.

 

[FireMaker]

Email[url] Handgonnes.com[/url] and ask what they used on theirs. And yes, you will enjoy it.

 

[jim gray]

I think most carbon steels would work, especially if you plan on proofing the barrel after it is finished. Some of the originals were even made out of brass or bronze. Many old muzzleloaders' barrels were made from materials that nobody would consider using today, and most of them didn't explode. ::

Just consider the strength of the material you use when you select your load. A heavy load would most likely be a waste of powder in a gonne anyway.

You could always ask your machinist to recommend a tool steel. I think S-7 would fit the bill, but I haven't worked in that area for a couple years now, and my memory isn't perfect.

 

[Teleoceras]

Firemaker:

Email[url] Handgonnes.com[/url] and ask what they used on theirs. And yes, you will enjoy it.

I can add to that right now. In E-Mails with Graywolf last November, he told me that construction is being switched to Brass. :m2c:

 

[bezoar]

Brass? That is surprising, didnt think he would use anything but high quality steel just for liability reasons.

 

[Teleoceras]

Bezoar:

Brass? That is surprising, didnt think he would use anything but high quality steel just for liability reasons.

You'll have to ask him why. As it is, brass barrels are period correct. Brass was used on muzzleloading firearms and cannons all the way up to the American Civil War.

Knowing Graywolf, his Handgonnes will still be of the same quality as of his steel arms. You just won't have to worry about rust.

 

[BillinOregon]

Teleoceras: I suppose there are all sorts of grades and specs for brass, too. Any particular stock that is best adapted to barrel making?

 

[benvenuto]

BRASS is for knobs, BRONZE is for barrels.
Brass is copper plus zinc plus other bits and pieces
Bronze is copper plus tin plus other bits and pieces(Although there is also Aluminium bronze, Silicon bronze, and Phosphorius bronze)
Gunmetal is 90% copper, 10% tin more or less
From http://www.cannonltd.com
We are now producing the highest quality bronze tubes on the market today, and the largest variety of styles. These tubes are constructed from Government spec. Naval gun bronze. Our tubes are cast from solid ingots of #225 bronze, yielding a casting of uniform quality. Naval gun bronze is a mixture of 88 parts copper, 8 parts tin and 4 parts zinc. Bronze tubes are not cheap; in fact, casting costs alone are 3 times as much as iron. On the other hand, overall appearance and safety may be consideration in making your decision on a particular tube. Our bronze tubes are twice as strong as iron tubes.
Cast gray iron tubes have a pressure rating of about 40,000 pounds per square inch; mild steel tubes have a rating of about 60,000 pounds per square inch and Naval bronze tubes have a rating of 65,000 pounds per square inch. So, as you can see, bronze tubes are the strongest, not to mention the most attractive.

All our bronze tubes are poured solid, then bored out, then lathe-polished. They have perfectly centered bores (great for competition shooting) and, with little care, will last for many, many years. We know you will be more than satisfied with our new line of bronze tubes; each will have the year stamped on the right trunnion and the number of the piece on the left trunnion. When you want the very best available today, get bronze.

We also accept orders for custom styles of tubes; if we don't have it, we'll make it. P.O.R.
also see
http://www.spba.net/prod01.htm
http://www.leedsbronze.co.uk/stockholding/specifications

 

[Teleoceras]

Benvenuto:

Well, Graywolf mentioned brass not bronze in his E-Mail to me.

 

[SquirrelsaurusR]

Our bronze tubes are twice as strong as iron tubes...
Cast gray iron tubes have a pressure rating of about 40,000 pounds per square inch...and Naval bronze tubes have a rating of 65,000 pounds per square inch.

Am I the only one that's not getting the math here,
or am I just missing something? ::

 

[bovey]

Have often wondered about the use of bronze... in the case of early Japanese matchlocks... could the lock really be made from bronze? Found several suppliers of bronze material and when looking at the specs it appears to be pretty strong stuff.

 

[bezoar]

Bronze barrels or actual lock plate? Bronze was the best material for cannons. When fired it would expand slightly and then de-expand. That and when a bronze gun burst, only a real small area would crack and vent, in an iron gun.. the whole breech of a cannon would disentigrate into shrapnel.

 

[benvenuto]

hehe I failed maths too, so I didn't spot that! possibly he meant "almost twice"

 

[benvenuto]

Brass or Bronze?
Submitted by Bill Anderson, 1st Continental Artillery


As we prepare almost every issue [of The Artilleryman Magazine] the confusion of

 

[benvenuto]

yes, cast iron guns were prone to what you would nowadays call "sudden catastrophic failure". The famous Carron foundary had that problem for a while during the 1780's, as did the various manufacturers in the US civil war.

Bronze and WROUGHT iron tended to burst into large pieces, or just crack open and burn the gunners to death. A careful caster though would go over a gun with a fine toothed comb, and repair any flaws as best possible. I think there was a gun by Jan Verbruggen that was found to have 70 (minor) repairs to it before the casting was approved for service.

 

[bovey]

Bronze barrels or actual lock plate? Bronze was the best material for cannons. When fired it would expand slightly and then de-expand. That and when a bronze gun burst, only a real small area would crack and vent, in an iron gun.. the whole breech of a cannon would disentigrate into shrapnel.

I was referring to the lock. All of the examples of Japanese matchlocks I have seen have locks that appear to be constructed from brass. This brought my question about bronze. It seems that it would prove to be a better choice.

 

[bezoar]

There are tangenishima locks that are made of iron. brass was easier to work with supposedly, and wasnt as expensive to get.

 

[bovey]

Thanks... just received my book from Shigeo Sugawa today and it has a lot of good information for a novice like myself. It was expensive but worth the price. It is a shame that more English language references are not available.

 

Simply have to have one, and thought about seeing if I can get a local machine shop to make me a simple one. But what would be a good, safe and easily available steel to specify? I am thinking a 1-inch diameter length of rod would be a snesible size for a .50 gonne.

I should have replied to this a long time passing.

For steel, I recommend 12L14. It's popular for precision rifled target barrels and rumored to be the steel of choice for a certain mountain size barrel company's muzzle loading barrels.

For brass,
Traditional gunmetal, leaded red brass alloys such as:
http://www.anchorbronze.com/c83600.htm
http://www.anchorbronze.com/c84400.htm

Cannon ltd uses this for their cannons:
http://www.anchorbronze.com/c90300.htm

Not only are these safe, it should cut down wear and tear on tooling as well as save production time.

Just my :m2c: