Stiff frizzen & shattering flints

[Steveyd20]

Hello Chaps,

First visit to this forum, and I'm hoping you can lend some experience to me.

I have recently purchased a reproduction baker rifle to use in my re-enactment group (5/60th royal American rifles), but I'm experiencing a few problems:

1) each time I pull the trigger, bits of the flint and flying off and chipping away. I'm getting sparks for two or three hits but then nothing after

2) the frizzen feels slightly stiff and the face of it is getting scratched and blurred each time the flint hits it.

I'm using top quality flints, and have used flints from various suppliers but still experience the same problems no matter what flints I use. The rifle is brand new, but I'm not receiving any support from the supplier, which hasn't helped things.

Any feedback or advice is warmly welcomed, and I hope you can put smile on a slightly cranky englishmans face!

Thanks

 

[jethro224]

Is this your first flintlock? Are your flints installed at the correct angle?

What the rifle manufacturer?

Assuming quality rifle and correct flint installation, check that the frizzen screw isn't overly tight and that there is a bit of lubricating oil on the pivot.
You may need to lighten the frizzen spring.

 

[biliff]

My first guess is the flint is bashing directly into the steel rather than scraping down the face. Pictures would help. hotoSmile:

 

[Steveyd20]

Hello,

It's my first flintlock I've owned although I've used some before.
The flint is installed correctly, and striking flat against the frizzen. I've taken the frizzen off and polished it up and and filed the bottom of it away (where it touches the spring).

How would you go about lightening the frizzen spring?
I'll get some photos up Tomorrrow morning (11pm here).

Thanks

 

[Birddog6]

Well, since you obviously don't know what you are doing, :idunno: , why not go to one of your re-enactment guys that Does Know Flintlocks & have him look at it, before you end up buying a bunch of new parts.

For Sure quit filing off things & leave the springs alone, til ya get some help. :slap:

Keith Lisle

 

[hanshi]

Pics will definitely help us see the problem.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I "lighten" my frizzen springs with a belt sander by sanding them. I lay them flat against the belt and lightly sand and then dip in water. Repeat the process a few times. You want to make sure you don't over heat the spring. I like my springs on the light side compared to many other people . I find I get a good spark and a lot longer flint life. Just remember "putting on " belts are hard come by. :idunno:

 

[Len Graves]

I also like a light frizzen. When building a lock after total assembly I try the action of the frizzen. This is totally by feel and experience . I like the frizzen ,when slowly pushed forward by hand , to have the spring take the frizzen away from my finger about half way through its travel. I can make it do this by taking off some of the cam ( part that touches the spring) on the of forward side (muzzle side). As was mentioned before go slowly . The spring should hold the frizzen shut and help it from bouncing back into the flint after firing. When grinding a spring , which I don't like doing, make sure your grinding marks go longitudinally not across. Sometimes it is necessary to do both. When you were asked earlier about what the brand of lock was it is because some locks are just not designed right, and it is very difficult to make them right . Good luck. a good lock is truly a thing of joy. A bad one makes me think bad thoughts.

 

[dikman]

G'day Stevey (from the Southern Colonies :wink: ), as I am discovering flintlocks can be a whole new learning process! Do any of your fellow re-enactors have the same rifle? If so, can you do a side-by-side comparison of the locks in operation? I wouldn't start filing/grinding anything until you know exactly where the problem is. It certainly sounds like the flint may not be hitting the frizzen correctly, if it's causing gouging and flint shattering.

Some photos of the lock might help, so folks here have a better idea of what they're dealing with.

Just a thought, have you tried searching the 'net to see if anyone else has had this problem with this brand (whatever it is)?

 

[Steveyd20]

I've seeked advice from other members and they say that the
Problem is the frizzen is too stiff, and possibly not hardened.

I'll take the frizzen off and file the part the touches the spring underneath, and polish the two edges where they meet, and see how I get on.

 

[dikman]

If it's stiff, it can only be the pivot is too tight (try it without the spring) or the spring has too much pressure. Polishing the two points-of-contact (the cam on the bottom of the frizzen and the corresponding point on the spring) and applying some grease may help, but if the spring is too strong then that will require some very careful work on the spring. Or a new, lighter spring, but if you make it too light the frizzen can bounce back after flipping up.

If the frizzen face is soft, then that will require hardening.

What make is this rifle anyway?

 

[Rifleman1776]

go to one of your re-enactment guys that Does Know Flintlocks & have him look at it

Best advice possible at this distance and without more information or pictures.

 

[MJMarkey]

Was the weapon new when you got it? If used did the last owner have this problem?

If you remove the feather spring does the frizzen move freely with no binding? The frizzen screw may be too tight binding the frizzen.

Next I would look for "bounce-back" which is when the frizzen actually bounces back to smash the top edge of the flint, breaking it. Here's how to determine if that's happening, adjust the jaw leather to extend the top part to almost the end of the flint. When you fire if you are getting bounce back it will mark the leather with a line where the frizzen is hitting the flint. This could be your problem. If this is the problem as I suspect, it's caused by an imbalance between the main spring and feather spring. The easiest fix is to keep that long top leather to act as a cushion for the flint.

I don't recommend you start filing or grinding on the springs to weaken them. A simple misplaced grinder mark on a mainspring or feather spring may cause the spring to snap when load is applied.
Do you have a source for parts when you need to replace them?

Instead of filing on parts you should be polishing parts. Filing creates roughness, polishing smoothes things and makes them slipery.

I'm with Birddog on this one. If you don't know what your doing, don't do anything. Even though most of today's locks are mass produced, they are assembled by hand and many times parts must be hand fitted to exchange them.

Lock tuning is not a casual experience, and is a HANDS ON kind of thing. If you got it new you could have returned it to the seller, if you hadn't gone filing on it.

I'm not trying to be hard on you, but you can really mess up your lock by randomly filing or grinding on things. My advice is find a gunsmith who can do springs and metal hardening if needed. Good luck.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I've seeked advice from other members and they say that the
Problem is the frizzen is too stiff, and possibly not hardened.

I'll take the frizzen off and file the part the touches the spring underneath, and polish the two edges where they meet, and see how I get on.

The advice you received from your reenacting unit isn't very helpful.

If you can remove material from the cam with a file, the that part isn't hardened. Stop filing until you can talk to someone who can help and will work wth you.

Polishing should be done with a stone. The geometry of the flint to frizzen needs to be addressed. The flint should be striking to scrape, not bash. Sometimes a bit of leather at the rear of the flint improves striking.

Make sure the frizzen moves freely without the spring. Polish those bearing surfaces on the bolt that holds the frizzen. Polish the bearing sides of the frizzen. Only take off enough metal to make the action smooth. You may need to get the frizzen hardened.

 

[S.Kenton]

I had kind of the same problem with an L&R lock...I had to do some filing and then some polishing on the frizzen cam and it took care of it.
I like the frizzen to break open at about 1/4 of the way open, meaning that the first 1/4 the flint is actually pushing the frizzen, the other 3/4 of the way the frizzen cam is opening the frizzen.
Any which way, I'd have a more experienced gunsmith look at it. Without the gun/rifle actually being in my hands it's nearly impossible to say for sure.

 

[Steveyd20]

Thanks guys for your help. The rifle is purchased from Henry Krank, and it was brand new.

I have checked the frizzen and it moves freely once the frizzen spring has a vice one it so it has to be the spring. I have polished the two contacting surfaces and it does feel lighter however the flints keep snapping and breaking each time I use it.

I have tried cheap flints and expensive flints, and each time lined it up properly and checked it strikes flat and clean at the right point on the frizzen. The frizzen is very scratched, and I have removed any burrs from the face.

Here is a picture taken looking at the frizzen spring - see how far it is out from the face of the lock plate? Any ideas??

Thanks
Steve

 

[cositrike]

Sounds to me like the frizzed is soft. I'd be off back to Kranks with the lock before I did anything else with it. I believe they have a reasonable reputation for righting wrongs.
Simon C

 

[biliff]

You keep saying "flat and clean". The flint should be striking the frizzen at a downward angle so it scrapes the face. Please take a picture of the way the flint is set up and how it is contacting the frizzen. Otherwise we're just guessing.

 

[Steveyd20]

It is doing so - the leading edge hitting the frizzen flat and pushing downwards.

I've given up now and shall be returning the rifle for a refund from the supplier :'(

 

[Rifleman1776]

We need a pic from the side with frizzen closed and a flint in place.