Still getting a clack...bang!

[Grenadier1758]

Ah, Rusty, don't think about the flash too much. If the lock is on the correct side of the stock, the pan flash is directed away from your face. If you are left handed and shooting right handed. the flash is still well in front of your face. Think instead about the sight picture and holding on target. By the time the smoke from the muzzle clears, that pan flash is long gone.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

If you want to see the testing, check out the link below. It's divided into 6 parts. If you like to bank your powder, be sure to see part 3.

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/pan-vent-experiments-an-introduction/
Regards,

Pletch

Very interesting experiment. I'm delighted to see your conclusions regarding a level pan. Any observations about vent size? The test vent appears to be rather large.

 

[Pletcher]

Tom, the pic is somewhat misleading because of the fairly large exterior cone. The size .078 sticks in my mind, not sure any more. Also, that barrel stub has been drilled more than once to do additional experiments.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[Grenadier1758]

Its somewhat interesting that when I fire my Harper's Ferry rifle, with the tuned Rifle Shoppe lock, observers tell me that the firing is instantaneous. I can often be aware of a slight delay between the hammer falling and the gun going off. Recently my rifle was used in a documentary and everyone commented on how fast it fired. Details on when this documentary will be aired will be posted when specific details are known.

Still, when I am in the zone of concentrating on the sights and the target, I do detect the slightest of delays.

Must have done a fair enough job of concentrating on the sight picture.

 

[Pletcher]

Grenadier,
You have zeroed in on an issue that shows up repeatedly when I time locks. During a session, I time a lock 20 trials with bevel up and 20 more with bevel down. Sometimes I repeat that again with a different flint type. So a session may have 40 or sometimes 80 trials. I often try to guess whether a trial was faster or slower than the previous trial. I am invariably wrong; human senses are a terrible tool to judge flintlock ignition.

Observers often are heard to say that sounded as fast as a .22. They are wrong; their senses can't detect the things that the shooter can feel. When you are really zoned in on the gun, you can sometimes sense or feel a difference.

When I time barrel ignition, I have a sensor on the pan and on the muzzle of the barrel. Even here my friend and I are often wrong judging by eyes and ears. In one case we thought a trial was the fastest yet and it turned out to be the slowest instead.

I look forward to hear about the documentary.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[Kansas Jake]

Another thanks Fletch for sharing this again. Testing beats opinion.

 

[hanshi]

Observers are often astonished that my flintlocks fire so quickly. I'm sure this is simply due to a couple of facts. First is their total (usually) unfamiliarity with flint ignition. Second is a preconceived notion that they must be very slow. Many, especially cap shooters, DO often notice a slight, or not so slight, time lag. To me, it's irrelevant; I follow through and don't think about it. That is probably the best advice I'm able to dispense.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Yeah you're probably right about the sparks, and fire heat will rise, and have a "lid" on it from the pan bottom, though I'm not sure how relevant that really is.

Just for the point of clarification, are you talking total barrel dwell time from sear trip to ball exit of .020" in percussion, and .080" for flint?

I would imagine the main charge ignites somewhat more quickly in percussion because the fire is being "injected" in to the charge under pressure rather than burning its' way in there through the TH in a rock lock.

 

[Zonie]

I can't begin to count the number of old movies and the early TV shows where real flintlocks were fired and as I remember it they all went, "Snap", Poof, Whooooooooooooooooooof, BANG." Something like a 3/4 to 1 second lag before they actually fired.

I saw so many of these movies that I actually thought that's just the way flintlocks shoot.
Even so, the first longrifle I bought was a flintlock because I wanted something just like the guns I saw in the movies and on TV.

I think there's a lot of people who still have those images in their minds and they are totally amazed when they see a well tuned flintlock fire even if it does take 0.08 seconds to do it.

 

[WRustyLane]

You are certainly on target, Zonie! After seeing all those old movies it made me want a flintlock and, quite frankly, I was surprised when I fired my first patched round ball out of my rifle. I noticed the lack of lag time when I pulled the trigger and it fired. Oh well, such is Hollywood.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I remember that when Fess Parker fired his apparently well tuned flintlock in the "Daniel Boone" TV series, many people believed that he had some sort of electrical ignition.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

The sort of funny thing about all this is that since I just recently got back into muzzleloading I started reading up on flintlocks and read so much about flinching that I talked myself right into doing it! I was really beginning to think that my 40 year old rifle that I'd built but never shot much was a lemon. It became obvious the first time I had a miss fire that I was flinching terribly. I put in a wooden "flint" and did a lot of dry firing getting used to the trigger and lock time. My groups have improved considerably since then. At least it was good for a laugh at my own expense.

JS

 

[biliff]

I can't begin to count the number of old movies and the early TV shows where real flintlocks were fired and as I remember it they all went, "Snap", Poof, Whooooooooooooooooooof, BANG." Something like a 3/4 to 1 second lag before they actually fired.

I saw so many of these movies that I actually thought that's just the way flintlocks shoot.
Even so, the first longrifle I bought was a flintlock because I wanted something just like the guns I saw in the movies and on TV.

I think there's a lot of people who still have those images in their minds and they are totally amazed when they see a well tuned flintlock fire even if it does take 0.08 seconds to do it.

I've run into people shooting pyrodex in their flintlocks. Offered them some real BP but they swore they didn't need it because "Pyrodex works just fine in my rifle". After shooting side by side with my rifle shooting real BP the difference was readily apparent and they wanted to try the real stuff. When asked why they thought all the misfires, hang fires and punky off sounding shots were "just fine" the replies have universally been "because I thought that was the way flintlocks were." If you have low expectations to begin with you don't search for a solution to a problem you didn't know you had. How's that for convoluted?

 

[SDSmlf]

I remember that when Fess Parker fired his apparently well tuned flintlock in the "Daniel Boone" TV series, many people believed that he had some sort of electrical ignition.

Quite the well tuned Hollywood trapdoor flintlock. Remember the disappointment when it was pointed out to me it was a prop and nothing more.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You, for sure have the evidence in the picture.

I'm as red faced as my regimental coat.

 

[SDSmlf]

Quite the well tuned Hollywood trapdoor flintlock. Remember the disappointment when it was pointed out to me it was a prop and nothing more.View attachment 10987

Not sure we can discuss or heavens forbid, post a photograph of a 1873 Trapdoor. Definitely a miss of the 1865 date. Hope photograph doesn’t get deleted, especially one with Fess Parker as old Daniel himself holding old Tick Licker...... Bet a large percentage of the members of this forum had their love affair with muzzleloaders and flintlocks started with that TV series...... and it’s ‘fake’ flintlock.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

I have to admit that my folks scraped up enough money to buy me a flintlock cap gun and a coonskin hat.

JS

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Bet a large percentage of the members of this forum had their love affair with muzzleloaders and flintlocks started with that TV series...... and it’s ‘fake’ flintlock.

Well...for me it was Mingo ( Ed Ames ) and his ..."Tom A Hawk"..

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Quite the well tuned Hollywood trapdoor flintlock. Remember the disappointment when it was pointed out to me it was a prop and nothing more.View attachment 10987

Holy abomination!...

Lot 78: Fess Parker's Signed & Documented Rifle From TV Series "Daniel Boone".

Sold:

 

[SDSmlf]

Holy abomination!...

Lot 78: Fess Parker's Signed & Documented Rifle From TV Series "Daniel Boone".

Sold:
View attachment 10989

Yep, the well tuned Hollywood trapdoor flintlock Tick Licker. My only hope is that nobody reveals anything questionable about Superman and George Reeves...... just not prepared for how he somehow faked a flintlock and how fast it shot. He was after all ‘faster than a speeding bullet’. Can’t fake that.... patched round ball or conical. Correct???