Stock Shaper's Lament

[Onojutta]

I'm working on my very first longrifle. I elected to proceed with a blank rather than a pre-carve because I'm a glutton for punishment. I am 95% done with inletting the 44" swamped rice barrel totally by hand, and I've surprised myself with how it's turning out. Other than a very small gap that I'm pretty sure will work itself out, the barrel is fitting like the wood grew around it.

The more time I spend on it and the more progress I make, the more anxiety brews in anticipation of the next step since the further I get with the project, the more a fatal mistake will cost me.

Soon I will be ready to begin roughing out the overall shape of the stock, and it is this step that causes me the most fear. Most people seem to enjoy the stock shaping the most and are relieved to get the barrel inletting, ramrod drilling, etc. out of the way and get going with the stock shaping. In fact I know a few builders who elect to skip the inletting and drilling and have that done for them so they can spend their efforts solely on the rifle's form.

When I look at some of the pictures on here and other website, books, etc., I see crisp straight lines, smooth transitions, etc. I don't have any experience with wood carving and to be quite frank, don't have the slightest idea how a person would even start something like shaping the stock. I've read the books, and watched the videos, but nothing comes close to demonstrating just how the wood is worked to achieve sharp crisp lines that aren't inevitably rounded off from over rasping. I enjoy and seem to be doing well at the "technical" part, the precise inletting, the attention to minute detail, etc. The engineer in me is fearing the architectural side.

Anyone offer any 101 tips to a person with no experience who is about to attempt to take a block of wood and try to sculpt it into something that resembles a longrifle?

 

[Stophel]

Once the barrel and rod are in place, I redraw the pattern on the stock. I transfer my paper drawing to a piece of luan (underlayment, 1/4") and make a pattern. Lay this on the wood and trace the outline. This makes the traced line ever so slightly oversized, but not much. Now, before cutting the pattern, I make durn sure everything is precisely where it needs to be: lock, trigger, etc. Then cut to the line. I do not leave any "extra wood", since it's just that much more wood I'll have to get rid of later (remember, it's slightly oversize already, so I do have a LITTLE room for play). After the profile is cut, then I start cutting to width. I draw out the plan view on the top of the stock as best I can, this time, giving myself plenty of room, and saw the butt out with a bandsaw oversize. Cut the flat for the lock and cut the fore end beside the barrel. I leave the fore end a bit thick for now, so I have plenty of wood to hang onto in the vise. Inlet the lock, and get the sideplate flat cut to match. Shape the bottom of the stock in the trigger area to absolute, final dimension, and then inlet the trigger. It's just a lot of chiseling and rasping from there. :wink:

That's how I do it anyway.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hardware stores sell devices that have string, and chalk together. so you can create a CHALKLINE on any surface. Simply pull the string taut along the line you desire on the wood stock blank, holding it taut, while you pluck the string like plucking the string on a guitar or violin. The chalk will come off the string an onto the wood. Bingo! A straight line. You can wipe the chalk off with a damp cloth. OR, you can use a flexible metal or synthetic straight edge, and draw the lines carefully from Point A to Point B with a pencil.

Draw your lines. Get your measurements down correctly before you touch the wood. Once you have the stock drawn in 3 dimensions, its simply a matter of removing wood that does not look like the finished product you want. Now is the time to revisit those videos.

You do want to keep a flat spot near, or in front of the lock plate sides, where the wood is or remains the same square thickness it was when the wood was a pure blank. This give you a surface to clamp in your vise while you work on the rest of the stock. The square area works best if its at least as long as the jaws of your vise are wide. If you don't leave a place to clamp the stock in the vise, you risk marring the surface of the stock where you do clamp it in the vise, no matter if you use pads or not.

When you have to remove a line because of some work that has to be done in shaping that part of the stock, keep the end marks of the line, so that you can replace the line on the new surface, for reference doing other work.

If you are asking about stock dimension, that is where using plans of existing rifles, OR, taking measurements off other guns you own that seem to fit you well---- give you the dimensions to use on this rifle.

I only suggest that you wait until you inlet the trigger(s) in to the stock and they work the lock properly, before you measure your Length of Pull from the center of the firing trigger( the forward trigger on most DB set triggers) to the center of the butt plate. What angle you cut the blank at for that buttplate is determined by how much down PITCH you want in the gun, and the height of the comb or stock at the heel of the stock. In other words, how much drop from below the line of sight down your barrel do you want the heel of the stock to be?( Or, it this rifle will be fitted with target sights( globe front, and tang peep sight rear), you might want to measure that drop at heel from the line of sight across the sights, so that the comb of the stock is high enough to support your face as you are aiming down those sights.)

The front of the comb of the stock, will usually be located on a line that runs even with the bottom of the forestock where it joins the sideplates of the stock. However, this is a function of fitting YOU to the stock, as there is no set rule on this.

My gunbuilder measured the distance from the center of my eye's pupil, to the bottom of my cheekbone to get the drop at comb "height" for my stock. Others will do something different.

Because I have a long neck, my stock has more drop at comb, more drop at heel, and more Pitch to it than most stocks will have. But this allows me to keep my head erect, looking down the sights with the center of my orbit. This puts much less stress on my eye muscles, and also on my neck muscles. It also keeps me centered over my hips so that I can swing my fowler easily to get on flying targets.

I hope that helps.

 

[mikemeteor]

goog luck Onojutta! I bet you'll ace it. :thumbsup:
Hope you can take some pictures along the way for the benefit of us other neophytes.
/MM

 

[Vaino]

Building from a blank can be very rewarding and can also be very frustrating. After the bbl and RR are done and the bbl pinned, sawing of the butt stock according to a layout that looks good but more importantly, will function well is next in order. Possibly the most important "line" on a LR is the combline w/ the attendant drops which have to be right so that the cheek rests comfortably and that the cheek doesn't get punished when shooting. Along w/ the combline and drops, the buttplate tang has to be smoothly continued on up the combline whether the combline is curved or straight and many times this isn't done and the rifle doesn't look "right". Presently building a Bucks County LR w/ a curved combline and my neighbor remarked that the drops of the combline were too big until he mounted the LR and was amazed that the "sights came right in". Some "not exactly right things" on a LR are forgiving but not the combline and the drops. Perhaps a gun that fits can be compared to the layout and everything will be OK. Good luck.....Fred

 

[rich pierce]

I use planes a lot and when shaping a round surface (wrist, forearm or forend) go from square to octagonal to 16 sides etc then round. I use rasps lengthwise on the stock to keep things flowing without high spots on the forearm, forend, comb, toe line, etc.

Let the furniture dictate the architecture. The lock set in along the barrel will determine the width of the stock there, the buttplate, the width there, then you get to work out how it will flow from the buttplate, through the wrist and to the lock panels on the "patchbox side" of the stock.

From the lock panels forward, same deal, let the barrel be your guide, keeping the forearm and forend as narrow as possible while keeping some roundness. Of course each style rifle or gun will have its own architectural details and "signatures".

It's a lot to bite off but well worth it. Don't expect the first one to completely satisfy you. Then don't expect the 20th one to completely satisfy you either.

I would say there is no substitute for hands on instruction and feedback from an accomplished builder.

 

[Onojutta]

Thanks for all the great advice here. If your lives are anything like mine, sometimes finding the time to even check this forum is a challenge, so I sincerely appreciate the time you guys spend in giving such generous advice.

To clarify my original question, it's not the initial "roughing" of the blank down to the general shape of a rifle that scares me, it is from that point on.

Once the blank is roughed down to the point when it's time to use the chisels, rasps, etc., it's the features such as the comb, cheek piece, and lock panels that seem like they could be so easily ruined by one wrong pass with the rasp. How do you guys to precisely shape the lack panel, cheek piece, etc.?

 

[Allan Gray]

A very famous furniture maker was once asked' "How do you make such beautiful chairs?"

The reply was, "Simple, I start with a tree and remove everything that doesn't look like a chair."

You sound like you have the right attitude and I sense confidence down in there. I would exhaust all of your "visual" resourses, such as books, etc. and proceed slowly, all the while posting photos here and asking for opinions.
Short of having a Master stock maker hovering over your shoulder this place, as I'm sure you know is a priceless resource.

 

[ehoff]

Its not a hard as you think, first off you have to establish guide lines. Center lines, the shape of the lock panel, angle of the cheek piece, etc. You redraw these several times during the build.

As you work you'll use the guidelines to check your progress, when you near them its time to switch tools. Rasps, deep gouges are great for removing big amounts of wood fast.

When you near the guideline its time to switch tools change to a cabinet makers file, scrapers, planes, spoke shaves, sandpaper (backed by a block is a good shaping tool) tools that don't cut as aggresviely and offer more control. Remove a little wood, stand back and look at the work.

 

[rootsy]

Just remember, no two hand made items are alike. If you make a "mistake" you can modify your design intent slightly to remove that mistake. Only you will know that the finished product isn't exactly as you had initially intended it to be.

 

[DTCoffin]

If you've got any one of the books on building a longrifle,my first rifle was scratch built and i used The Art of Recreating the Pennsylvania Longrifle (somewhat primitive compared to Gunsmith of Grenville County, but it did explain how to layout and cut/rasp away for the butt end of the gun).Trust me, get one of these books, read it and you CAN do it.There is a tutorial by Mike Brooks at the top of the page that is quite helpful also.
If it helps any ,I'm the type of guy who measures twice and cuts twice and wonders why it's short( on remodeling projects :rotf: :rotf: )

 

[Onojutta]

Hey what do you guys use to cut down the stock who don't have a $1000 band saw in the shop?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hand saws.

 

[Stophel]

My band saw cost less than $500.

One of the small, "Benchtop" bandsaws will actually work pretty well, though the throat height opening is not much. I have one from Black and Decker that I used to use (I'm sure I paid less than $200 for it). It is unhandy for a large stock blank, but DOES work. I had to get it back out recently when the lower shaft for my big Sears bandsaw broke. Got the parts, but still haven't put the shaft in...

 

[StrawHat]

Yep, hand saws are an option. I also use a drawknife, spokeshaves and handplanes to remove wood I feel needs to be on the floor and not on my rifle. A handplane helps me keep a good line and the shaves help me with radii. The drawknife is a quick way to remove wood.

 

[rootsy]

A large and small microplane base with an assortment of inserts is handy for fast wood removal. Just don't get carried away

 

[ehoff]

The japaneese pull type saws work extremely well for cutting out stocks. Since you cutting on the pull stroke the blade is in tension, and thus cuts straighter then a normal saw that cuts on the push stroke. You can pick one up for around $25 to $30. at most home centers.

 

[Onojutta]

Can you cut curves and scrolls with those?

 

[dyemaker]

Old tools are the best. I was looking at this tidbit about spoke shaves a while back. There is a gunstock scraper too. The gunstock shaver may just refer to the shape of the handle. Tools made by craftsmen for craftsmen. I imagine that a native's "crooked knife" could be used for things besides canoes too.
Link

 

[fitter]

No, but they work real well for cutting down the forestock and straight cuts.I used to use the Jap saw for the straight cuts, then a coping saw to do any of the curved parts that you can't get with the pull saw. I use a band saw now as Stophel says.Use it to slab wood off the butt and cheekpiece as well as cut the profile. Real fast way to remove that excess wood. See Mike Brooks tutorial. I use the saw to remove a lot of the wood that Mike does with a plane, but takes some practice with the band saw.