Stock Stain Color?

[Mainer]

I am restocking a Caywood Wilson Trade Gun I built a few years ago. The original stain was a medium color with an orange tint that I never liked but have had to live with. I really want to stain it a darker, more antique looking, color. Does anyone have any suggestions for kind and color of stain?

 

[Nenajungas]

The link is to a question I had, it talks about finishing a stock as well with Linseed oil. Enjoy
Click Here
~Nenajungas

 

[reddogge]

I used to use Robert Ditchburn's from Gettysburg, PA stain but I don't know if he makes it anymore. It is a nice brownish walnut.

I also like Behlen's Solar-Lux alcohol based stains in Medium Walnut (a little orangish tint) and American Walnut(darker) or a combination of both. You have to experiment on the wood of you stock.

The Dixie Kentucky Rifle stain has a reddish tint.

Here's a NW trade gun with Ditchburns stain and BLO on it.

And here's a friend's Remington 511 with a combination of the two Behlen's walnut stains on it with BLO for comparison of color.

They both appear lighter as they were photographed in strong afternoon sunlight.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I am a bit different than some, any sort of gaudy on a rocklocker turns me off.

I liked the very strong vinegar stain I recently put on a Lancaster hunting piece, the figured wood turned out quite dark, which was exactly what I was seeking.

 

[Mainer]

Thanks to all for the advice. What is a vinegar stain though. Do you apply it like other stains and where do you buy it? Thanks.

 

[Herb]

Mainer- see "Shoe Polish Stock Protection" on this Builder's forum, my post of 5/13/05. Dark brown leather dye works very well. I just stained a walnut fullstock with it tonight.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Thanks to all for the advice. What is a vinegar stain though. Do you apply it like other stains and where do you buy it? Thanks.

I just stuffed a few well washed plain steel wool pads(not the soaped up kitchen type) into a two liter big mouthed cranberry juice plastic bottle. Added a quart of apple cider vinegar and let it sit for a few months with a small hole in the screwed on plastic top. (if tightly closed it does foam and build pressure as the acetic acid in the vinegar dissolves the steel wool)

It was the color of strong coffee when I used it. I have since added another steel wool pad and a cup of vinegar to keep it on standby.

Here was result from the last gun I used it on.

 

[squirejohn]

Tanstaafl How many coats of stain were required to get that shade of brown? I've got a couple of different "brews" of vinegar stain going and have tried it on several pieces of maple but the color is much lighter. If I go to more than two coats I seem to loose wood grain contrast. The color of your stock is what I'm trying to acheive on my Chambers York rifle which is ready to stain. I guess my next step is to try LMF nut brown stain (if UPS ever decides to deliver it :curse: )alone, and over a vinegar stain.

 

[Mainer]

TANSTAAFL that's a beautiful gun. That is exactly the color I'm looking for but alas I don't have several months to "cook up the brew", but I will definitely keep the recipe in mind the next time.

And Herb, I did see that post and saw the color of your picture. That too is a color I'm looking for but I couldn't find that brand of leather dye locally. Do you know if I can use any brown leather dye?

Squirebrown you said you are going to use the LMF nut brown stain. Having never seen it myself is it the same dark brown color of TANSTAAFL's stock?

And for the record regarding the previous posts about using brown shoe polish to darken a stock...it didn't work for mine. :m2c:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I applied about three coats, allowing to dry in betwixt each time.

After staining (try on a piece of scrap) the color will appear blotched and dull. Sand or scrape smooth to remove whiskers and apply your final finish to see what you have, it may not be nearly as bad as thought. On the stock, just take and flood the surface of the wood with distilled water, this will accomplish the same purpose to determine what the wood will look like once finished with oil & etc.

The vinegar stain works on the same principle as aqua fortis. The dissolved ferrous metal and weakened acid penetrates into the wood fibers, changing the color chemically by going after any tannins present, resulting in differentiating the color of soft and hard figure in the wood.

Note: After the vinegar stain, the stock will need to be washed with a solution of fresh baking soda and distilled water to kill the ascetic acid in the vinegar, (it should foam a bit when applied) otherwise, the acid may continue to work and darken the wood even more.

 

[squirejohn]

Thanks for the feedback - I had forgotten about neutralizing with baking soda. The LMF nut brown came today and I tried some alone and over some other stain mixtures. I got excellent results with the LMF as an overstain on a scrap piece that had two vinegar applications with a very dilute overstain of medium leather dye. Nice rich dark color that doesn't blot out the wood figure. On another scrap I'll duplicate this stain concoction to see if I get like results. If not I'll probably just " wing it" and hope for the best. Hopefully it won't look as though I smeared on some rustoleum paint with a hand full of dried leaves :cry:

 

[jmckenney]

A staining process I like to use on maple and maple only is one that was passed on to me several years ago.

the formula is
nitric acid/distilled water 4:1
baking soda in water until no more soda will dissolve
potassium permaginate/distilled water until you have a supersaturated solution
boilted linseed oil and 4-0 steel wool

First apply the nitric acid solution with a brush/cloth being careful to not splash on yourself and wear rubber/latex gloves. Let this dry thoroughly then apply the baking soda solution to kill the nitric acid.
Then using a torch lightly heat the wood, do not burn. The wood will turn a slight brownish color when it gets warm enough.
Apply 3 or 4 coats of the PP solution depending on how dark you want the wood to appear letting it dry between applications. I usually do 4 coats because you can always lighten the wood with the linseed oil and steel wool.
Once you have the final application of PP dry, start working the wood with the linseed oil and 4-0 steel wool stopping just before you have the color you want because the next process will lighten it a little more.
This is a deep penetrating stain and allows you to give the new gun an antique look by not working areas where the wood would not normally receive wear. Around, below and behind the cheek piece, around any relief carvings, next to the thimbles etc.
Note: the wood will appear black after the first application of PP but keep applying it anyway. Once I get the coloration I want I then heat up some linseed oil,turpentine and brown cider vinegar and mop it on 2-3 times letting it penetrate every inch of wood and drying between coats. I then take some linseed saturated 4-0 steel wool and work off the excess linseed oil that has built up.
I then use the same linseed oil,turpentine and vinegar mix to finish the gun by appling between 12-14 hand rubbed coats. Soon as I figure out how to post a pic I'll put one of the finished products on here.

 

[Scharfrichter]

^^^ I use something very similar to this method on maple. I, however, use aqua-fortis from wahkon bay which is just dilute nitric acid. Rather than using a torch you can use a blow dryer. Due to the lower heat, though, you gotta apply the AF in coats and blow dry each coat individually. This takes longer but it does have the benefit of giving you a bit more control over how light/dark you want your stock. With the commercial aqua-fortis baking soda is unnecessary as it expends itself interacting with the minerals in the wood during the heating process. I would imagine the same is true with this 4:1 mix, if not, simply diluting it further would probably fix that. I've never even heard of potassium permaginate so I won't even go there, if the stock needs further darkening I just use a diluted stain of one kind or another. After all this I just do a typical Linseed/Tung oil finish till I'm satisfied.

 

[Herb]

Yes, you could use any oil leather dye.