Stock staining methods and finished results

[jdhiii]

.......hardware store. The "Permalyn Sealer" is, in my opinion a joke.

LSU,
I have no experience with this sealer. :hmm: What is it and why is it a joke?

-d

 

[LSU TIGER]

Permalyn is a two step finish. First the sealer, then the finish. It works well, but is more of a polyurethane than an oil. I think the difference is that the sealer is water thin and the finish isn't. I'll stick to a real oil that adds to the finish and ages well. A urethane is like glass. Once it cracks, that's it. An oil can be repaired, a urethane has to be stripped and reapplied.

 

[rootnuke]

The carving looks GOOD!

.... The boiled linseed oil would look good, but is not weather resistant in any way shape, or form. In fact, your sweat will dissolve it onto your hands. (YUCK!) Jim Chambers' "Traditional Stock Oil" works great, "Pilkington's" stock finish works good also and can be had either clear, or tinted golden - brown or red - brown. Either brand is weather resistant. Chambers' oil is at www.flintlocks.com and Pilkington's oil is at www.brownells.com . The rottenstone can be used to cut back a final finish to the level of sheen desired, but as part of the application is a ton of fuss that can the done with plain steel wool and a tack cloth from the hardware store. The "Permalyn Sealer" is, in my opinion a joke.

Last night I took a sample of the Nut Brown and cut it 2:1 with LMF Stain Thinner. When applied it soaked in like lightning and looked much, much better. I intend on adding additional applications to see how darkness improves.

We have not had any sunlight in 5 days, so natural sunlight vs. stain color selection is yet to be seen. I am leaning away from LMF Maple and considering Nut Brown. Oddly enough Nut Brown is what Jim Chambers pushes on his website.

Thanks for the relief carving compliment, it is taking me FOREVER. One little tool I found helpfull is a series of leather discs which you can mount in a drill press for "Power Stropping" carving chisels. Very fast and efficient sharpening.

As for the oil application, I have BC True-Oil.

ok, I agree the Permalyn manure is probably just that.
Could BC True-Oil be used instead of your suggestion for the Jim Chambers oils. I have heard others talking about the Linseed oil and its short-comings, however it seems everyone agrees that True-Oil will protect the stock and reject water etc. Your thoughts.... :hmm:

 

[LSU TIGER]

Tru-Oil will work fine. It's closer to a type of varnish that was used in the Colonial period, which was linseed oil that was cooked down and dryers (white lead) added. I used it as a sealer as well by cutting one bottle 1 to 1 with turpentine (the real stuff, not the fake stuff) and using another bottle straight as the finish. Best part is, you can get it at Wally-World!!!

 

[RussB]

Tru-Oil will work fine.........I used it as a sealer as well by cutting one bottle 1 to 1 with turpentine (the real stuff, not the fake stuff) and using another bottle straight as the finish. Best part is, you can get it at Wally-World!!!

LSU Tiger.......Would you be so kind as to comment on what the "real" stuff is, and what the "fake" stuff is. I have always thought of Turpentine as Turpentine, what is the difference? And, is it the "real" stuff that you can get at Wally-World?

Thanks.
Russ

 

[LSU TIGER]

Sure, Russ. Turpentine is made from pine tar. It works great to thin almost any oil based paint or varnish and helps speed drying. But, it's aromatic and as flammable as gasoline, maybe more so. Several years ago, "turpenex" (there are several names) was introduced as a less flammable, safer (?) equivilent. The problem is, in spite of the claims on the can, it doesn't work nearly as well as turpentine. I get turpentine at Home Depot or a paint store. Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil can be found at Wally-World for $3 to $4. However, W-W doesn't carry turpentine probably because of it's flammable quality. But, they do have propane and MAPP gas... Go figure...

 

[RussB]

OK...I got it. I was thinking (Geez that's dangerous!) that there was more than just one kind of Turpentine...both available a Wally World.
Just wanted to make sure I was getting what I thought I was getting....That don't make sense! But you know what I meant.
Russ

 

[rootnuke]

Yesterday I made Iron Nitrate from Aqua Fortis. Tonight I applied it to a sample of curly maple and applied heat. Then I cut 1:1 True Oil and Terpintine and rubbed it in with 600 grit wet dry paper several times nice and easy and did some plain rubbing with soft painters rag.

And I am hear to tell you.
That Aqua Fortis is the gosh-darndest, purdiest.:shocking:
Make you slap you Grand-ma.
Be-UUUU-Ti-FULLL stuff I have done and seen yet.:redthumb:

I think I'm gonna push my wife out and sleep with the Aqua Fortis tonight, the grain is just plain purdy. :crackup:

 

[rootnuke]

Aqua Fortes test 1 with 1 coat of 1:1 True Oil and Terpintine

wow :shocking:

 

[tg]

Linseed oil when mixed with marine spar varnish and a bit of turp will give a good durable finish, Bivens and Fred Miller use this formula.

 

[LSU TIGER]

What did I tell you!? :thumbsup: :redthumb: :blah: :crackup:

 

[Bryan Enoch]

Hi Rootnuke,
I once did the battle of Goliad reinactment "Come and take it" years ago. It brings back fond memories.
I'm not sure which "1770's Early Lancaster you're working on (I'm doing one by Jim Chamber's) but I've tried some of Jim's stains and finishes he sells and really like them. I think his stains he sells are Laurel Mountain Forge but he mixes some for his own color, and I love Permalyn Sealer. Check out these products as I think you'll like them.

Bryan

 

[Bryan Enoch]

LSU Tiger, I read an article from Muzzle Blasts Magazine that was written by Bivens, and for protection of the wood, Permalyn was given the highest ratings. I don't remember word for word, but your statement that it's a "joke" is just ignorant. There's a lot of good products out there that don't work best in every situation although they are good in their own right. The sealer soaks into the wood to harden and protect, and you can top it off with several other finishes like the BC Tru Oil that is a poly-urethane, which is an oil finish. Tung oil can be used as well but still won't protect as well as the Permalyn or Tru Oil. I've tried many different finishes, and stains and won't say anyone's is manure just because it's not my favorite today. It might be tomorrow.

Bryan

 

[Darkhorse]

Permalyn was also bottled, labled and sold by Bivens at one time under another name. This in itself makes any article by Mr. Bivens or anyone else praising the item suspect in my opinion.
It may not be a joke at all. Then again it may be. But after reading in "Recreating the American Longrifle" the correct way to apply the stuff I decided there must be a better finish for a rifle.
I have tried Tru Oil among other finishes but the best I have used on Long Rifles remains the Chambers Original Oil finish. And Marse Jim doesn't give me any kickbacks at all.
My rifles aren't built to be hung on a wall and admired. They get exposed to a lot of dew, rain, mud and everything else during the course of a year that includes squirrels, deer and turkeys. When the Chambers oil fails me and my stock swells or cracks from moisture then I might try the permalyn.
Until then I can't see switching. Plus the Chambers oil is real easy to repair a scratch.

 

[mule ear]

This may be somewhat off the beaten path of this thread, but has anyone had experience using MinWax products for gun work, either alone or in conmbination with LMF products??

 

[tg]

The addy below may be of interest if anyone would like more info on a finish that has been around for a long time and is favored by some top name builders...






http://members.aol.com/illinewek/faqs/stock.htm

 

[LSU TIGER]

Enoch, if you would have read the 11/23 post of mine, you would see why I contend that Permalyn is a joke. Urethane finishes have,in my view, no place in gun building. Certainly, Premalyn Sealer, or any other sealer will help build a finish fast, but I want something to penetrate as deep a possible and build a finish on that. But, take a look at a modern turn-bolt rifle with a urethane finish that's seen some use. Simply adding finish will never repair the scratches in the finish. With an oil finish, dab some finish on and rub it in. Oil will give with changes in tempurature and climate, no urethane will ever do that. Your comments as to my thoughts being ignorant, well, that sounds like the pot calling the kettle black...

 

[lonewolf5347]

I was wondering what you guys think on FORMBY'S TUNG OIL?
The reason I am asking I did a stock on a mauser a while back think it took 30 coats over two weeks (low gloss finish) seem to hold up real nice in bad weather and easy to repair. :m2c:

 

[noahmercy]

I just started reading this post with great interest, as I will be building my first rifle starting this week. One product I haven't seen mentioned is Lin-Speed oil. As I understand from some of the replies, it looks like it would work fine, but I would value input from those of you who have experience with it. :master:

 

[hcook]

Hey Lone Wolf, I've used Tung Oil (not Formbys') several times with very good results. It's easy to apply also. I mix 50/50 the first time with turpentine. Afterwards i just rub it in by hand. If you rub it in until it feels dry each time, you don't have to sand between coats.

Hank in WV