Strength of 1858 Loading Levers

[nkbj]

What's the most oversized you've used on round ball in the 1858's? Not assuming anything about depth and angle of chamfer, what has been the most you have found to be OK without over working the loading levers?

 

[AZbpBurner]

I cast .454" and .456" RB's and I'm not looking for a strength contest for any of my Remington or Colt loading levers - I use a Black Dawge benchtop loader.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

If it takes a lot of force to load, whether it be from too large of a roundball, or too hard a lead alloy, that lever is going to wear faster, if not break prematurely.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Guaranteed, if you load hard balls you WILL break the loading lever, more sooner than later.
All you really need is a constant lead ring after loading.
For example if .451 gives you no ring, but a .454 gives you a small ring, that is all you need.
If the .454 is sporadic in ring size, the ball diameter is inconsistent, I would go to .457 balls.
Always make sure the balls are pure lead.
Fred

 

[mooman76]

I don't think that is what he is getting at. He wants to know the biggest size people use.

 

[nkbj]

Right, relative to the diameter of the chambers.
For example, Piettas have some pretty tight chambers.
A .451 can be what, as much as about .004 or .005 over what the factory supplies?

 

[wpjson]

I was kinda wondering the same thing. My New Army takes a hell of a lot more force to seat the same ball I shoot in my Colt Army. Nice to know it ain't just me.

 

[ccmountainman]

I don't understand why people feel a need to go to balls that are 6, 7, 8 thousandths over chamber diameter.
There is no need and/ or real advantage.
You will just shave off the excess lead anyway.
Yeah it might be swaged a bit tighter, and you might get a 1/2 to 1 more thousandths wider sealing band.
But it is just harder on the loading rod.
Doesn't matter how big your bore measures, that ball is still only going to be as big as the chamber it is loaded in.
And NO a round ball will NOT obturate.
That is a characteristic of a flat or hollow base bullet only.
Whether that ball properly fits the bore or not, is dependent on the machinist that did the machining on the gun. Chamber / forcing cone and the bore.
My max ball diameter is .454, because .451 doesn't hardly shave.
My custom conicals are .455 to barely .456.
And they load quite easily because of the tapered side design.
But there is no need to go way oversize and put excess stress on the lever!

 

[Zonie]

For what it's worth, loading a larger diameter ball into the chamber will greatly increase the length of the cylindrical area formed on the ball.

Using a .452 diameter roundball shoved into a .450 diameter chamber will produce a "flat" cylindrical area that is .0425 long. (about 3/64")
(That's what shearing .0010 per side off of the ball would produce.)

Increasing the ball size to a .454 diameter increases the length of the "flat" cylindrical area to .0601 length. (About 1/16")
(That's what shearing .0020 per side off of the ball would produce.)

A .457 diameter ball shoved into the same .450 diameter chamber will end up with a .0797 long cylindrical area. (about 5/64")
(That's what shearing .0035 per side off of the ball would produce.)

Going to extremes, a .460 diameter ball shoved into the .450 diameter chamber will end up with a .0954 long cylindrical area.
(That's what shearing .0050 per side off of the ball would produce.)

The unanswered question is, "Does this increased length of the cylindrical zone produce better groups?" and, "If it does, is it worth risking the loading lever to get it?".

I think the longer length is useful in producing more surface for the rifling grooves to engage but it's not worth breaking the loading lever to get it.

Maybe that's why the precision target shooters shoot larger, oversize balls but use a simple bench press to load their cylinders?

 

[M. De Land]

Use a greased wad and don't worry about a hugely over sized ball.
Secondly ream the chamber mouths to groove diameter and make sure the wad is over size.
I like mine about .005 larger than the cylinder mouth.
You can than use a ball not over .002 larger and all will be snug and fine without taxing your loading lever and cross screws.

 

[Poor Private]

In all my .44 calibers the size of the ball required varies. I have in stock at home .451-.457s. Notes are recorded for which revolvers like which balls best and what loads of powder, and caps each uses. I try to never "force" a bigger ball than whats needed for each gun, I don't see the purpose, other than some bragging right that "my balls are bigger than your balls". If you want a bigger boom go to long guns, or cnnons.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Guaranteed, if you load hard balls you WILL break the loading lever, more sooner than later.
All you really need is a constant lead ring after loading.

Sez it all. :thumbsup: Heed and load.
There are several reasons why only softest lead should be used in a c&b revolver. Go soft.

 

[Sandan027]

Just the chamber mouth rather than the whole chamber? Or only the mouth deep enough to seat the ball?

 

[M. De Land]

Whole chamber unless rebated then just the upper part down to the rebate.
Your typically only taking a few thousands in cross section.

 

[hawkeye2]

"Just the chamber mouth rather than the whole chamber? Or only the mouth deep enough to seat the ball?"

As M.D. said. As long as you use a filler (Cream of Wheat in my case) to keep the ball out near the chamber mouth so there is no air space between ball and powder it doesn't matter assuming all chambers are reamed to a uniform depth so they all have the same volume. I have the whole chamber reamed on my Remingtons. I go to .456" and use a .457" ball and cut a new forcing cone with a shallower angle. I haven't shot a Colt type except for fun so haven't had any reamed but I would only go deep enough to seat the ball in any with a rebated cylinder. The .44s are close to the bottom of the cylinder notches and it isn't a good idea to remove any more metal there if it can be avoided. The same goes for the .36 pocket Police and Navy 5 shots.