Stuck ball, now with drill bit

[NorthFork]

NEVER USE SMOKELESS POWDER IN A MUZZLELOADER!

Even .22lr.

EVER!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hi,

I have a problem with my Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken 54 cal.

A ball got stuck, so I glued a drill bit to the end of a wooden dowel, slid the dowel down the barrel and screwed the bit into the ball; this has worked perfectly other times. However, this time the glue didn’t hold, and I ended up pulling out an empty stick, and the ball, now with drill bit, still stuck in the barrel.

After reading on this forum, I then used the Universal Unloader from DGW. The ball moved about 6 in forward and stopped. Apparently the drill bit dug into the inside of the barrel.

I’ve been trying to take the breech plug apart, but no luck. Doesn’t seem to move.

Checked with Pedersoli. New barrel is $740+.

1. Any ideas on how to remove the breech plug? Maybe they aren’t meant be taken apart.
2. Any ideas on what to do next to remove? I've seen some suggestions re: melting the lead, but wouldn't it end up coating the barrel?
3. Haven't had success in finding an alternative replacement barrel. Any suggestions on who to check with?
4. Any recommendations re: gunsmith for this?

Thank you for any suggestions.

Your ball and now a drill bit have moved forward some 6". There is now added volume for gas to expand into. As the gas expands, the pressure decreases and is not likely to move it any further along the bore. More than anything else, the pressure from the grease gun would be the most likely method to move the stuck ball and drill bit along the bore without causing more damage to the bore. You should be able to remove the breech plug. I don't think that Pedersoli has an interlocking drum and breech plug. It has a chambered breech. They like to really torque the breech plug into the barrel. It will be difficult to remove. Moe of a task for a professional. Your intention to use a bore scope to see what you have at the stuck ball is a good idea. If you have the room to insert the thin walled tube over the drill bit, then the grease fitting and grease pressure will remove the stuck ball.

Putting powder under the nipple and blowing the ball out works quite well when the ball is stuck at the breech. Not so well when the ball has moved away from the breech.

 

[S.Kenton]

I wonder if one could use a thin ball puller, such as a dry wall screw soldered to a threaded end to fit into the ramrod end, go slightly off to one side and screw the screw into the ball and pull it out safely? I’ve made several of these ball pullers and they work great...but never with a drill bit stuck in the ball. Just an idea.

 

[Walkingeagle]

I wonder if he’s solved the problem yet??
Walk

 

[Idaho Ron]

Where to get this?

I got this at the local hardware store. For a TC Rifle or Green mountain barrel the snail is too large. A normal length zerk isn't long enough for the fitting on the grease gun to snap on. The extra length is very useful.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Maybe get a long piece of copper tubing and run it down the bore to get it over the drill bit to keep it from doing any more damage when you force the ball out.

You Definately want to make sure the drill bit is not cutting into the barrel. You need a light such as a lighted bobber to drop down and see. The tube method should work if you can get the tube over the drill bit. If you cann't find a tube a short one could be made by any one with a lathe and placed over a wooden dowel .

 

[user 34300]

Take it to a competent gunsmith who understands MLs.

IN the future, neve stick any improvised tools down a gun barrel. In this case is sounds like the drill bit has probably injured the bore. I've seen it before, drill bits in a rifle bore, that is a surefire road to ruin. I never understood what the drill bit was going to accomplish. In all likelihood the barrel is ruined, sorry. IF it is suitable Bobby Hoyt may be able to rebore it.

 

[azmntman]

I think its fine. Just get it out.

 

[Okie Hog]

Yep, there's the easy way and the hard way.

Was shooting muzzleloaders with other folks when a man who was not in our party dry balled. We all recommended removing the nipple and working some powder into the flash channel and under the nipple, re-installing the nipple and shooting the ball out.

Nope, the guy got out his ramrod and ball puller and broke the ramrod off inside the barrel. He took the nice rifle to a local "gunsmith" who used a grease gun to remove the ball. The "gunsmith" buggered the nipple threads: The nipple blew out the next time the rifle was fired.

This is the same "gunsmith" who removed the magazine tube on a friends high grade model 12 Winchester shotgun with a pipe wrench.

 

[Don H]

Yep, there's the easy way and the hard way.

Was shooting muzzleloaders with other folks when a man who was not in our party dry balled. We all recommended removing the nipple and working some powder into the flash channel and under the nipple, re-installing the nipple and shooting the ball out.

Nope, the guy got out his ramrod and ball puller and broke the ramrod off inside the barrel. He took the nice rifle to a local "gunsmith" who used a grease gun to remove the ball. The "gunsmith" buggered the nipple threads: The nipple blew out the next time the rifle was fired.

This is the same "gunsmith" who removed the magazine tube on a friends high grade model 12 Winchester shotgun with a pipe wrench.

Time to find a new gunsmith!
I vote for the grease gun method. I've never used it but in this case with the ball stuck 6" from the breech I wouldn't try to shoot it out.

 

[mooman76]

Doesn't sound like a gunsmith to me. More like a self taught want to be.

 

[user 34300]

Thus the word "competent".

For some reason many idiots think themselves to be self styled gunsmiths. The field attracts unsuitable individuals. A former military or police parts changer is not a gunsmith. In truth a real gunsmith must understand engineering, strength of material, machine shop, wood shop, firearms history, and have years of experience before they can claim the title "gunsmith". Often "Bubba" puts out a shingle and butchers guns, he is a jackass, A thief and will probably cause injury or death to somebody. A real gunsmith has insurance and a degree from an accredited trade school in gunsmithing. If a "gunsmith" does not have those things run away.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

Hi,

I have a problem with my Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken 54 cal.

A ball got stuck, so I glued a drill bit to the end of a wooden dowel, slid the dowel down the barrel and screwed the bit into the ball; this has worked perfectly other times. However, this time the glue didn’t hold, and I ended up pulling out an empty stick, and the ball, now with drill bit, still stuck in the barrel.

Thank you for any suggestions.

For future reference....if it doesn't shoot out, this will stop any future stuck drill bits:
( Add a guide of some kind to the drill bit to keep the bit off the barrel balls )

 

[Crow-Feather]

With the copper or brass pipe over the drill bit try the discharger again with the rifle pointed downward.

 

[Crow-Feather]

Just shoot the ball out. Ball on the powder or not. Why do folk get so complicated over a stuck ball. Get as much powder in there as you can and shoot it it out. If it doesn't work first time add more powder.
And stop gluing drill bits to wooden dowl

The ball moved about 6 in forward and stopped.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Post #1 says this is a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken. Removing the patent breech on a rifle like that might be a booger. Pedersoli is renowned for tight thread tolerances.

The OP described a "stuck ball." I don't know if he meant a dry ball, or if there's powder in there and the ball just got stuck on the way down.

I would think that the chamfered end of a drill bit would not dig into the barrel wall, but I'm not sure of that. Not all bits are chamfered, either. I have some that have square-ended shanks.

If there is powder under the ball, I would address that first. If there is no powder, or if you are sure you cleaned it out, I would suggest that your next step would be to call Robert Hoyt. He is equipped to unbreech the barrel, if needed, and he can assess any damage and reborn the file, if that is needed, while it is in his shop. Checking it out with a bore scope before calling him would be a good idea, if possible.

There was a Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle for sale in the classifieds recently which had been rebored by Mr. Hoyt because of a "stuck jag." The seller did not elaborate, but there must have been irreparable damage to the bore.

There were lots of great suggestions in this thread for dealing with a stuck ball, but that drill bit that is stuck in it complicates things.

Good luck! Above all, be safe!

Notchy Bob

 

[old ugly]

dry balling is my speciality. i do it at least once every time out.
sometimes i get it out, with the puller, last time walkingeagle and i forced 4f in the touch hole and after 4 attempts it came out, and sometimes the gun comes home and i use the air compressor to blow it out.
i have never used the grease trick but that would for sure get it out. nothing like hydraulic pressure. i would imagine the clean up after would take a bit of time tho.
ou

 

[Walkingeagle]

Actually clean up is easy. Cleaning patch on a jag and just push it all back out the nipple hole. Run a couple patches down to get as much as possible then run alcohol patches down a few times. Then just clean as normal.
Walk

 

[SOLANCO]

How many times have you successfully used this hot poker method to seal a hole in a lead ball stuck in a barrel? I have never heard of it before and would love to hear more about the process.

Never. Also never had a lead ball stuck and drilled a hole through it. But figure a direct application of high heat to the lead is better than heating the whole barrel. Use of a zerk and pressure is, to me, the preferred method. But first he must restore the pressure integrity of the bullet in order to go that route. Hence my plan.

 

[Bassdog1]

I think the OP is waiting on a bore scope to see whats going on inside the barrel. With the ball moving 6 inches and stopping I am curious to see if the bit came out and he didnt see it. I would blow some air through the barrel and see if air passes through.