Stuck balls!

[Dude]

Thanks, Britsmoothy.

You know, a newby doesn't know what's important and what isn't. And when there's so much info to absorb, it can take a while to sort out what works/doesn't, is or isn't important, and get to the simplicity of it all. It's old timers like you, guys who've been there/done it, that have the best advice.

So thank you for your understanding and not making fun of us greenhorns with our over-complicated views. Eventually we'll get there with your help. I'm sure it's funny watching us and our wild contortions.

So, thank you!

 

[Josephg]

In the old days when I was young, we used to read about things first before we did them. Books, magazines, what ever it took to get information about something. I still have several BP books from the seventies I had read before starting in BP shooting.

Maybe now days with computers people have stopped reading books? Maybe they stopped printing books. Maybe we don't actually go where books can be found? Like sporting goods stowers. They used to have racks with books about the things the store sold. That way you would know how to use the items you purchased. Often times when buying something like a BP rifle the man behind the counter would actually recommend a book on the subject and direct you to the actual book rack. Sometimes the teller would actually go get the book for you. I never read about co2 blasters and using grease guns, lol, sorry can't help it, to remove a ball from a barrel. Seems to me on the PC the blind are leading the blind. That's the modern way to do things I guess.

 

[Bucky]

Murphy's law states: "what can go wrong will go wrong" I am sure that covers muzzleloading too. However..... I believe the vast majority of stuck ball problems can be attributed to two things: distraction and/ or haste. The best advice to the newby is to keep your head in the present. Tune out to the chatter of those around you, if your shooting with others. Refuse to be distracted. Likewise, don't hurry. While loading, don't think about the previous shot or see how fast you can get the next one off. Britsmoothy, it's enjoyable to hear your thoughts from across the pond.

 

[Josephg]

Everyone is going to dryball. That's a given. Modern methods being employed to correct that problem, ........well...........

 

[user 49399]

I like to keep it simple as possible. I shoot from my possibles bag whether in the field or at the range. I use the same loading procedure for rifle and smoothbore. First load powder, then a wad of wasper nest (sometimes brown paper or newspaper or something similar) then shot in smoothbore or .495 bare roundball in .50 caliber rifle and topped off with another wad of whatever wadding. In flintlock I prime with same powder as main charge.

I only shoot at 50 yards or less so this method works just fine for me. It's quick and easy and fouling is not an issue for me. Some folks have tried to criticize or pick apart my method but it doesn't matter. This is my simple method and I only shoot for fun or small game hunting. Never had a problem with it. I won't use paper wadding where there's a chance of forest fire. Wasper (wasp for some of y'all) nest has never burned.

To each his own. Be safe, have fun.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I never seen such BS as I have about stuck balls and grease guns and screw balls on this forum. And they post it on the forum, that blows me away.

Grease guns work awesome to take out someone's mistake. I used one once to take out a projectile from a friends gun that was loaded for over 20 years. I didn't know how it happened or if powder was there. If it was over loaded or if it had multiple, No idea. I screwed in a grease zerk and in a matter of about 1 minute it was out. No damage to the gun, no sketchy tricks. Just pump a couple times and the very stuck load popped right out. Blew the grease out of the barrel with a compressor and cleaned it in about 5 minutes.

 

[Josephg]

Grease guns work awesome to take out someone's mistake. I used one once to take out a projectile from a friends gun that was loaded for over 20 years. I didn't know how it happened or if powder was there. If it was over loaded or if it had multiple, No idea. I screwed in a grease zerk and in a matter of about 1 minute it was out. No damage to the gun, no sketchy tricks. Just pump a couple times and the very stuck load popped right out. Blew the grease out of the barrel with a compressor and cleaned it in about 5 minutes.

I'm sure it works. My first thought when I heard of the method was, what a mess! If I had a rifle that had a twenty year old load in it I woudl take it apart, remove the load, inspect the barrel and reassemble. No muss no fuss. I have read on here where a shooter packed his stuff up went home and used a grease gun to remove a ball.

 

[Sparkitoff]

My first go with a "traditional" muzzleloader was with a Zouave. I was given the rifle and had it years without firing because I didn't know how. A gunsmith that was a black powder aficionado gave me "bullets" and a tin of lube. The bullets were conicals he poured. When I needed more bullets and lube he made more bullets but told me just go get Crisco, that's all that was in the tin.

Fast forward... I started up again (30 years later) with PRB using spit. It worked pretty good. I kept seeing and hearing about the "Dutch S Method". I read the material. Suddenly, I was making water/oil concoctions, weighing balls and swabbing near clean after every shot. While I had some consistency/accuracy it took the fun out of it. I also found my patches done with his method were inconsistent after time and exposure (although I used Ballistol and he did say water soluble cutting oil which may be different). Anyway, I went back to spit or some randomly made "moose milk" I put together and the accuracy is still there without swabbing every shot, formulas or worry.

Definitely agree with the keep it simple philosophy.

 

[Okie Hog]

Now the modern long rifle shooter has to swab every shot, carry a grease gun and carry a tool chest around! I'd give up if I believed that was involved !!

But sir, this muzzleloader stuff rivals rocket science in it's complexity.

My powder is Black MZ which likes a tight fitting ball seated very hard on the powder. i use a metal ramrod and a golf ball to get it that way. In case of dry ball, a wimpy CO 2 cartridge will fail to dislodge that ball. Ain't using no grease gun or ball puller.

The bore of a new barrel is worked over using Scotch Brite and jeweler's rouge: The rifle loads easier, fouls less and the patches are not ripped.

 

[Grenadier1758]

One would think by now that everyone with a ram rod would have the tip cross pinned. Some of the first posts I read on this board were about ram rod tips coming off because the tip was not cross pinned. The grease gun was one of the options for removal even back then. CO2 bicycle tire inflators modified for use in ball removal were much later. The first method to clear a dry ball was to get some powder in the flash channel by removing the nipple or poking fine powder through the touch hole. I've pulled a few balls. I have collared ball pullers to do that. Bought a rifle that wouldn't fire because the barrel was plugged. Used my ball puller to engage whatever was at the breech and pulled out an old cleaning patch.

In the 1970's and 1980's there were many books published on the shooting and care of muzzle loading firearms. For $5 one could get the Dixie Gun Works catalog and get reasonably decent instructions and have access to new muzzle loaders and all the accessories. The Lyman manuals and Gun Digest muzzle loading books were published then. Most of the instructions from 1970 haven't changed. They haven't changed much from when Ned Roberts wrote his book in the 1940's. With the internet and a good search engine or helpful forums, there isn't much demand to publish new books. There are @Spence10's Black Powder Notebook, Black Powder Notebook (insightbb.com), and the many videos by @duelist1954 on YouTube not to forget @B P Maniac Shooter's videos or @Bob McBride's "Black Powder TV" and many others to fill the information void.

Now a days everything is sold to be "intuitively obvious" to the average user. Muzzle loading guns may be simple, but they are not intuitively obvious. So many subtleties in the use to become proficient. That's why so many newcomers to the sport get into trouble. We tend to want instant gratification. Many think that there has to be better ways than were done 200 years ago. Certainly the use of CNC machinery to manufacture complex parts is better, but inspection of parts to meet the designed pattern worked too, just needed more hands on labor.

 

[Pete G]

Wasper (wasp for some of y'all) nest has never burned.

Or if you go waaay down south it is a waus.

 

[Zonie]

I'm sure it works. My first thought when I heard of the method was, what a mess! If I had a rifle that had a twenty year old load in it I woudl take it apart, remove the load, inspect the barrel and reassemble. No muss no fuss. I have read on here where a shooter packed his stuff up went home and used a grease gun to remove a ball.

I agree. The grease gun method makes a real mess but it's not real hard to clean up.
If I were to rate the methods of getting a stuck ball out of a gun, this is the order I would use:

1. Use a screw type ball puller and a pinned ramrod or a steel range rod to pull the ball. (Pouring a teaspoon of water down the barrel can often loosen up a stuck patch and make pulling the ball easy.)

2. Work some loose powder down thru the flame channel after removing the nipple or thru the vent hole on a flintlock and shoot it out.

3. Get a long metal tube that just fits into the bore. Push it down until it hits the stuck ball and then pound it further down so the ball ends up inside the tube. Then, pull out the tube and ball.

4. Use a grease fitting (zerk) and a grease gun to force the stuck ball out of the barrel.

5. Unbreach the barrel and push the stuck ball out of the bore.

The reason unbreaching is last is on many guns, the breech plug is extremely tight and it's easy to damage the outside of the barrel by holding it in a vise. Some guns like CVA's and Traditions have a design that requires removing the drum or plug with the vent in it before the breech plug can be removed. Getting everything put back together on these guns, added to the very tight torque on the breech plug can be a problem.

Even on a traditional screw in type breech plug, the face of the plug must fit tightly against the shoulder at the bottom of the threads to provide a gas seal. When the plug is removed, there is usually some damage caused by its earlier installation. When the plug is reinstalled, the damaged breech plug face sometimes does not want to seal the joint without further tightening. Because the tang on the breech plug determines how the barrel is located in the stock, "overtightening" the plug is not an option because the flats of the plug and barrel flats won't line up, or the percussion drum won't be in the correct position or both.

At least that's the way I see it.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I'm sure it works. My first thought when I heard of the method was, what a mess! If I had a rifle that had a twenty year old load in it I woudl take it apart, remove the load, inspect the barrel and reassemble. No muss no fuss. I have read on here where a shooter packed his stuff up went home and used a grease gun to remove a ball.

Soap and water is a lot easier than taking the Breech Plug out.

My list is
#1 use a compressor
#2 grease gun

 

[Howard Pippin]

Murphy's law states: "what can go wrong will go wrong" I am sure that covers muzzleloading too. However..... I believe the vast majority of stuck ball problems can be attributed to two things: distraction and/ or haste. The best advice to the newby is to keep your head in the present. Tune out to the chatter of those around you, if your shooting with others. Refuse to be distracted. Likewise, don't hurry. While loading, don't think about the previous shot or see how fast you can get the next one off. Britsmoothy, it's enjoyable to hear your thoughts from across the pond.

And being that this is St. Patty's day, I think everyone would want to know that O'Toole said that Murphy was an optimist.

 

[Eterry]

Before i knew to wipe the bore with a dry patch before shooting i had MANY caps pop on the nipple with no bang. In fact it happened almost every time I took the gun out. Which for a 14year old was daily. Having no one to tell me different i kinda expected this as normal. Once it fired it continued to go off fine until i ended for the day.

For a kiss fire during casual shooting I just dealt with it by pulling the nipple and pouring in dry powder. If I had went straight to the ball puller I bet I would have pulled 50 balls.

When i was going hunting i took the nipple out before I left the house and poured powder in, then trickled some in the nipple itself. That almost always assured a first shot success.

I see a need for ball pullers, but I'm convinced you should first try shooting it out, if possible.

 

[ord sgt]

I leave the powder measure in the bore, I leave the patch ball at the top, leave the short starter in the bore, leave the range rod in the bore till I am ready to fire.

A friend has shot two rods down range this way. He said those shots didn't feel right when he pulled the trigger.

 

[Josephg]

Zonie. I said I would take the rifle apart that had a twenty year old load in it. That is the prudent thing to do. Me, that's what I would do. Removing a bolster or breech plug is not rocket science. I've removed replaced and repaired many with no problems or damage. If a person lacks the skills or is afraid to work on a rifle or they don't have the proper tools, they should take it to a gunsmith.

 

[Okie Hog]

I see a need for ball pullers, but I'm convinced you should first try shooting it out, if possible.

Works for me.

 

[nhmoose]

1. Blow out with C02

2. Remove nipple add 10 or so grains of 4F replace nipple shoot out.

3. Grease fitting that fits pump it out. Clean up is faster than you think.

4. never drill screw shove anything down the bore other than the stainless range rod.

5. 20 years plus of owning and running a shop I have never had to remove a breech plug to clear a barrel. NEVER

Then take the gun to a smith cause IMHO you are inept to solve the problem without damaging the bore, gun oneself or others But that is MHO

I have done 1,2 3, at the range for others as the range owner knew I was a Smith. $20 dollars put it on my bench and the ball would be out 99.99% with the C02 blower. Shooter stunned how easy it was. I would then give him his $20 back and said go to a gun shop nearest big one was Kittery Trading Post and buy a TC blower it cost Around the same amount.

Over in Maine the boys took notice and at their territorials had a C02 blower attached to a fire ext. That took care of all the stuck balls over there.

Those same Maine boys started my families interest in Flinters that has not stopped yet!! Thanks guy's!!!!

 

[Josephg]

1. Blow out with C02

2. Remove nipple add 10 or so grains of 4F replace nipple shoot out.

3. Grease fitting that fits pump it out. Clean up is faster than you think.

4. never drill screw shove anything down the bore other than the stainless range rod.

5. 20 years plus of owning and running a shop I have never had to remove a breech plug to clear a barrel. NEVER

Then take the gun to a smith cause IMHO you are inept to solve the problem without damaging the bore, gun oneself or others But that is MHO

I have done 1,2 3, at the range for others as the range owner knew I was a Smith. $20 dollars put it on my bench and the ball would be out 99.99% with the C02 blower. Shooter stunned how easy it was. I would then give him his $20 back and said go to a gun shop nearest big one was Kittery Trading Post and buy a TC blower it cost Around the same amount.

Over in Maine the boys took notice and at their territorials had a C02 blower attached to a fire ext. That took care of all the stuck balls over there.

Those same Maine boys started my families interest in Flinters that has not stopped yet!! Thanks guy's!!!!

I been collecting antique rifles for forty years maybe more. I shoot them also but will not shoot one unless it is inspected first. That means taking it apart. Like I said, not rocket science. Got a Teslong scope here a while back but it does have limitations. Love it. I'll save the grease for my Jeep, lol.