Stuck Minie - Live Charge

[acsutton]

Hello all,
Recently, I shot my 1853 Enfield repro for the first time with live ammunition. I had purchased minie balls from DGW and planned to use them without lube for accuracy's sake. Therefore, while loading, I simply poured the powder down and followed it with the minie, rammed. The fifth shot went down a bit slow, but down none the less. Had I been more cautious or experienced, I would have swabbed the barrel at this point, but I didn't. The sixth bullet got stuck about 6 inches from the charge. Having got it so far down already, I attempted to use brutal force to get it down the rest of the way. I messed up my ramrod's threaded end but did get the bullet down another 4 inches or so. From what I can tell, the bullet is no more than 2 inches from the powder but I didn't want to take the risk of firing it in this condition.
So that's where I am now. I have a live charge in my gun and I haven't touched it for fear of messing it up. I have talked to some folks and done quite a bit of online research and found you guys. I've read the related threads as well.
I do have a bullet puller ready for use but I'm nervous about setting it off with a spark or something. Also, I haven't killed the charge with oil or water because I wanted to keep the option of firing it and hoping it'd be fine.

After all that, I'll break it down into a few questions for anyone who's kind enough to answer:
1) Should I kill the charge regardless?
2) If so, should I first try to pull it and if that fails try the CO2 discharger? This bullet is STUCK.
3) Should I bite the bullet and try to shoot it (it's close!)?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm trying to learn as much as I can from this mistake.

Sincerely,
-Alec

 

[Trot]

I definitely would not try to shoot it with the bullet not seated all the way. That bullet is going to be really stuck if you used that much force on it. You need to ALWAYS lube minie balls, they certainly would not be more accurate without lube. You can experiment with different lubes but you always lube them.

 

[poordevil]

Add about a spits worth of water and wait a minute or so, then try ramming it again. That little water will allow the fouling to soften enough (hopefully) without killing the charge in order to fire it out.

It is never a good idea to fire a black powder gun without some kind of lube. Shooting dry minnies will not improve their accuracy.

P

 

[phoenix511]

Use the CO2 discharger first. There is an available adapter for musket caps.
Keep it pointed in a safe direction as the ball will come out with some velocity and energy.

In the unlikely event the CO2 discharger scheme doesn't work, try the grease gun approach. You might be lucky and find a Zerk fitting that can replace nipple, otherwise you will need to make an adapter: female end to fit the Zerk, male end to go into the breach, replacing the nipple. Pump away, and be prepared for a mess to cleanup.

Remember to swab between shots, and that Minie balls are meant to be lubricated.

 

[Deadeye]

get a 3/8" brass rod and seat the minie on the powder then shoot it out. Always use lube.
Deadeye

 

[Dphar]

Why would you think that the lube would cause inaccuracy? It is likely you will now need to spend a couple of hours mining lead from the bore.
Its gotta come out or it will simply cause increasing problems.

It is not possible to shoot BP in any firearm without a lubricant that softens the fouling unless it is wiped every shot.
Its impossible to shoot any lead alloy bullet with any powder without a lube to stop the lead from soldering itself to the bore and tearing chunks from the bullet.
To solve the first problem.
Wipe down to the minie with a water wet patch, not dripping but just wet then stand the gun muzzle up for 5 minutes to let the water run past the bullet. Then either ram the ball down and shoot it out or pull it with a puller. If the bore is not too leaded it should slide right down or back out.

I would recommend you buy some SPG lube from blackpowderspg.com.
Someone here may have other options for lube.

Dan

 

[acsutton]

So the consensus seems to be NOT to even attempt pulling it?

I should either 1) first try to ram it the rest of the way and shoot it (I'm dubious about getting it any further in)
or 2) kill the charge and use the discharger.

Hmm.

 

[JMinnerath]

You gotta get that thing out of the barrel.
If you don't have anything that will seat the bullet all the way down onto the powder, you might as well quit messing around and just remove it.
Start pouring hot water down into the bore to get the fouling softened or use oil.
That CO2 discharger ought to do it, or pull it with a screw puller.
The grease gun trick is a pretty messy job.

 

[123.DieselBenz]

I'd swab it down as far as you can, let it sit for a min, swab it again, followed by a dry patch, see if it will seat.

If not get a 3/8" or 1/2" steel or brass rod, and drive it in, with a hammer if you need too!

Swab it again, dry, oil or lube the bore . . . FIRE!

Then you need to clean the barrel, and check for leading, remove the lead if there . . .

 

[wulf]

Make sure there is NO cap on the nipple!

 

[ohio ramrod]

AMEN never try to ram down a charge with a cap on , or primed flint!. I suggest pouring down good old alcohol to loosen the mini, ramming it down and then if it doesn't shoot out the first try. Check and make sure the mini is still all of the way down, pull the nipple sprinkle in a few grains of powder and replace the nipple and fire it out!

 

[D Sanders]

Try to find a piece of brass bar stock about 3/8" in diameter the length of the barrel. Use it like a heavy ram rod (hammer if you will) and drive the bullet all the way down and remove the rod. The gun can then be shot normally. It works for me on stuck PRB's.

HH 60

 

[123.DieselBenz]

So . . . how did you make out?

 

[acsutton]

Got my CO2 discharger in, but the adapter doesn't fit the nipple!
Do you think this would work? I have an Armi-Sport 3- Band 1853 Enfield repro. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cab...t=discharger&WTz_l=Header;Search-All Products

 

[Tumblernotch]

If it's that tight a discharger probably won't work either. Take the breech out, lube the barrel a little on the muzzle side of the bullet, take a steel rod and drive it back out the way it went in. If it still doesn't want to move braze a 1/4" drill bit onto a rod long enough to reach the bullet from the breech end and drill a hole through it. Then you can take a rod (about 9/16") and drive it from the muzzle end. It should collapse on itself enough to loosen up. You still might have to hit it a couple of good licks. Be glad it's not a Minie stuck in a smoothbore.

 

[Jason Lewis]

Got my CO2 discharger in, but the adapter doesn't fit the nipple!
Do you think this would work? I have an Armi-Sport 3- Band 1853 Enfield repro. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cab...rger&WTz_l=Header;Search-All Products[/quote]
yes, that should fit a musket nipple. if that doesn't work then get back to us.

 

[acsutton]

I don't know if I can de-breech this one. In fact, I'd really like to know how that is done if possible. It seems to me that there isn't a breech to remove. I live in an apartment in Tallahassee, no shop or anything for brazing or fabricating removal rod assemblies with bearings and what not.
Seems to me that my best option is to try to shoot it remotely.

Is there any chance of detonation of the charge if I try to pull it with a ball puller first? I'm pretty sure that will fail, but I think I should try it first.

 

[R.M.]

I would think that a brass rod and a hammer should drive it down the rest of the way.
You should never shoot a projectile if there's an air space between it and the powder. It will more than likely ruin your barrel.

 

[varsity07840]

Several options exist.
1. Remove the barrel from the stock. Thread the puller into the bullet. They have brass collars on them to prevent spark. I've used them to pull lots of bullets and minies after a day of hunting.
Tap the rod to give it a good start and try to keep it centered in the bore. Give it plenty of turns to get it deep in the bullet. Put the barrel in a padded vice, ahead of where you thing the minie is. Puulllll.
2. Try the brass rod method and shoot.
3. Last resort. Pull the breech plug. Your Enfield probably doesn't have a patent breech which would explain why you don't think it has a plug. Put it in the padded vise upside down with the breech end around 4" past the jaws.You're going to have to get it very tight to stop it from slipping. Try a large cresent wrench and encourage it with a hammer. Obviously, don't use heat, which in other circumstances would be SOP. By the way, I built my first two rifles in an apartment back in the '70s. My bench was in a little walk in closet.

Good luck.

Duane

 

[123.DieselBenz]

Here is another idea . . . see if there is a muzzleloaders club in your area, find a "friend" who will help you, I'm sure there are many people who have done this before, and with the right encouragement you will get that out!

If I were closer I'd be happy to come by and do this for you. Maybe there is somebody on this board who would volunteer to help out? :idunno: