Stuck wedge in 1851 Navy

[sequoia]

I bought a Pietta 1851 Navy some years ago and just got around to taking it out of the box. When I tried to disassemble it to clean the grease off of it I could not get the wedge to budge. I tried using a wood mallet but it just won't move. Any suggestions?

 

[Redstick Lee]

did you lift the retaining spring before tapping on the wedge?

 

[sequoia]

The spring is clear of the side of the revolver. It won't budge in or out.

 

[Kansas Jake]

The wood mallet may just be denting on the steel. If it was mine I would make sure it had oil on it and then try a brass punch and lightly tap it with a hammer. That would seem to give more "shock" value to the stuck wedge and may free it. One would have to be careful with even a brass punch and it could upset or mar the wedge, but you will need to get it out sooner or later.

Is there any chance there is rust inside between the wedge and the arbor?

 

[m-g willy]

Are you sure you are tapping it out and not in? :rotf:

 

[Enfieldguy]

This is the result of improperly fitted wedges and arbors from the factory. When the wedge and arbor are right the cylinder gap is constant and the wedge will seat with thumb pressure. It's common for the assembler to seat the wedge with a hammer and ship it out.

 

[sequoia]

I think that is what is going on. It won't go in or out. How do fix this?

 

[Zonie]

Do the obvious.

Give the wedge and the metal around it a good dose of penetrating oil and let it sit for a day or so.

Then, support the left side of the barrel with a couple of blocks of wood with the large end of the wedge hanging down between them.

Use a piece of brass or aluminum and a 2 pound hammer and give the exposed upper end of the wedge a good stout whack.

As long as the left side of the barrel is supported by the wood and your using a brass or aluminum piece to transfer the hammer blow to the wedge, you won't damage anything.

Because the wedge may release at any time when you give it a blow, I strongly advise that you hold the brass or aluminum piece with a pair of pliers.

Given enough persuasion, the wedge will eventually release its grip on the barrel arbor and the sides of the barrel slot.

The marks left on the wedge by the brass or aluminum block can be removed with a little oil and some steel wool.

 

[sequoia]

I will give that a try later this week and let you know how it goes. Thanks.

 

[M. De Land]

My guess is the wedge is probably soft and a burr has been raised and cammed over the slot locking it in.
I'd give the muzzle a sharp wrap back toward the frame with a raw hide hammer then try the wedge again. That may loosen the wedge/slot interference and unlock it for you.

 

[Gene L]

Since it's a new revolver and has never been de-wedged, (pounded on) I doubt it's got a burr on it.

Hit it a little harder with a brass or plastic or rawhide. It went in, it'll come out.

 

[azmntman]

Since it's a new revolver and has never been de-wedged, (pounded on) I doubt it's got a burr on it.

Hit it a little harder with a brass or plastic or rawhide. It went in, it'll come out.

Yea! Smack it till it sounds expensive :haha:

 

[denster]

Follow Zonie's instructions they are spot on. The only thing I can add is it sometimes helps on the inbound side to tap on the front and rear sides of the wedge a bit then try again to punch it out.
Pietta gets kudos for having the correct arbor length but unfortunately this makes it harder to extract the wedge when it is set in with excessive force which Pietta for some reason insists on doing.
Like Zonie said make sure it has support and use a non marring punch and a reasonably heavy hammer with short firm blows. It will come out but it may take a bit of time.

 

[nkbj]

I bought a Pietta 1851 Navy some years ago and just got around to taking it out of the box. When I tried to disassemble it to clean the grease off of it I could not get the wedge to budge. I tried using a wood mallet but it just won't move. Any suggestions?

I'd try a brass rod for a punch after soaking it penetrating oil for a good long while.

Got one real old Pietta that was literally forced together by the manufacturer. The wedge had been forced to such an extent that after the wedge came out the arbor was so distorted the barrel would not come off. It took many hours to turn it into a functioning 1851. Now it's a great shooter.

 

[M. De Land]

I disagree with driving wedges out against any rigid blocking. It should be in and back supported by the heel of your hand so shock is the force that loosens the wedge not blunt force which tends to bend arbors and frame alignment pins if not perfectly fit to the profile of the arm. Holding the gun in your hand allows a cushioning effect with enough resistance to remove the wedge without bending anything.
Also it is far better to give the muzzle a sharp rap back toward the frame with the rawhide hammer than to bang laterally on the wedge (one side then the other) with a punch to loosen things up.
What you have is metal distortion in the wedge or slot that needs unloading with a possible burr upset.
I use the heel of a screw driver handle or rawhide mallet to start the wedge.
The reason for rapping the barrel muzzle back toward the frame with a rawhide mallet or good stick of wood is to unload the back pressure of the wedge from both sides of the barrel slot.

 

[denster]

I disagree with driving wedges out against any rigid blocking. It should be in and back supported by the heel of your hand so shock is the force that loosens the wedge not blunt force which tends to bend arbors and frame alignment pins if not perfectly fit to the profile of the arm. Holding the gun in your hand allows a cushioning effect with enough resistance to remove the wedge without bending anything.
Also it is far better to give the muzzle a sharp rap back toward the frame with the rawhide hammer than to bang laterally on the wedge (one side then the other) with a punch to loosen things up.
What you have is metal distortion in the wedge or slot that needs unloading with a possible burr upset.
I use the heel of a screw driver handle or rawhide mallet to start the wedge.
The reason for rapping the barrel muzzle back toward the frame with a rawhide mallet or good stick of wood is to unload the back pressure of the wedge from both sides of the barrel slot.

Well then you would just be wrong. With a Pietta the arbor bottoms out in the arbor well and the forced in wedge holds them tight together. Smacking the muzzle with a mallet will do exactly nothing. Also I did not say to hit the wedge from side to side with a punch. I said tap from side to side and I meant with a brass or plastic faced hammer and I have had that work from time to time. Your method of holding in your hand and tapping with a screwdriver handle suggests to me you have never removed the wedge from a brand new Pietta. I have done a number of them and I have always gotten them out and never damaged a gun doing so.
What is really annoying is Pietta knows this is a problem. They even put out instructions on removing the wedge and while they stated the gun should be supported they suggested using a screw driver and beating on the handle. A better solution would just be to fire Luigi the gorilla wedge setter.

 

[denster]

Here is a link to Pietta's instructions for removing a stuck wedge. Thisis a PDF file and don't bother clicking the youtube link the video is not available in the U.S.
This is conclusive that Pietta is and has been aware of the problem. You think they would just correct it.

http://www.pietta.us/pdf/How_to_remove_the_wedge.pdf

 

[azmntman]

A better solution would just be to fire Luigi the gorilla wedge setter.

:rotf: :thumbsup:

 

[denster]

Aaaaaaaaaammmmeen!!!!!!!!!

 

[M. De Land]

Try it first Dennis then tell me it doesn't work!
It's the shock against the direction of the load not blunt force on it that loosens the wedge. Same reason you strike a tight screw head with a properly fitting bit to get it loose or to tighten it after it bottoms out.
Both the wedge and muzzle rap can be accomplished in your hand without trying to get some rigid blocking system on the offside to equally pressure nest the cylinder and side of the barrel to receive a dead blow from a hammer and punch.
You do of course know steel has elasticity?
I simply disagree with some of your described methods and believe there are better and safer ways to accomplish the goal.
I am going to give your .002 cylinder gap a try on percussion guns and see how it works but there must be a reason no revolver service manual or factory sets them that tight if it works so well.
My guess is because the front of most revolver cylinders are not square enough to the back of the barrel to allow that tight of a gap without level- flush interference fit.
You won't find it that tight on original guns either.
If they set them at .004-.006 they just as easily set them at .002-.004 without additional cost.
Any way I appreciate the discussion as there is always more to learn and different techniques to try.