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Student arrested with Black powder gun
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It's called "Zero Tolerance" and it is stupid on the part of inflexible authorities who are liable for everything and so can allow nothing, and carelessly stupid on the part of the kid who knew better but brought it in anyway. If he's that careless maybe he shouldn't have a gun with a pointy bayonet and access to Class III explosives.
It is against my companies policy to have a firearm in my car on co. grounds, I signed the policy, so I don't bring a gun to work. That's freedom what with responsibility is all about.
And why is a high school kid driving to school, anyway? :shake: I remember four seniors in my highschool who owned cars, and none of them were allowed to park on school grounds. Now they drive to school and have a crossing guard to help them get from the parking lot across the street to the school. :youcrazy: What a world, what a world. :shocking: God, I've become my Father.
It is against my companies policy to have a firearm in my car on co. grounds, I signed the policy, so I don't bring a gun to work. That's freedom what with responsibility is all about.
And why is a high school kid driving to school, anyway? :shake: I remember four seniors in my highschool who owned cars, and none of them were allowed to park on school grounds. Now they drive to school and have a crossing guard to help them get from the parking lot across the street to the school. :youcrazy: What a world, what a world. :shocking: God, I've become my Father.
Here in Georgia, a Jr. high schooler was arrested and expelled for having a metal fingernail file in her purse! I personnaly like New Yorks position that each case should be evaluated on it's own. As far as the kid taking it back to the school....the school is the one that gave it to him in the first place. I used to pitch for a minor league baseball team and could throw a rock at someone probably with more accuracy than that fake musket could fire one! CUT OFF THE HANDS-THEY COULD BE USED AS WEAPONS! I am not distanced from what's going on in the world. I have a granddaughter in school and I worry about what could happen, but I do believe that common sense and reason should be exercised when situations like this arrise.
:imo: :m2c:
:imo: :m2c:
The school didn't give him the weapon. They encouraged him to join the reenactment group. The reenactment group supplied the weapon. So what would you have them do? Change the rules to say "Good children can bring guns to school?" Most kids are good right up until they shoot someone with an "unloaded" gun, or hand it to their friend who accidently shoots them.
How many times a night do we hear some felon's neighbor saying on the evening news: "He just didn't seem the type to do that."
Lawyers make fortunes interpreting laws. Lawyers become politicians. Politicians make laws. As long as we elect politicians we'll never break the cycle.
At least "zero tolerance" laws are easy for folks like me to interpret. "Don't do it ever." "I got it."
How many times a night do we hear some felon's neighbor saying on the evening news: "He just didn't seem the type to do that."
Lawyers make fortunes interpreting laws. Lawyers become politicians. Politicians make laws. As long as we elect politicians we'll never break the cycle.
At least "zero tolerance" laws are easy for folks like me to interpret. "Don't do it ever." "I got it."
Guest
I agree thet the zero-tolerance policy is stupid!!
I herd awhile back thet a kid got "caught" with a baseball bat in his car at school,..... kicker was,.. the baseball bat was hollow plastic and 'bout 8" long, the bat had broken off of a "baseball trophy" also found in tha car. This boy was suspended from school 'cause baseball bats were on the schools list of prohibited dangerous weapons. :youcrazy:
:shocking: :what:
I herd awhile back thet a kid got "caught" with a baseball bat in his car at school,..... kicker was,.. the baseball bat was hollow plastic and 'bout 8" long, the bat had broken off of a "baseball trophy" also found in tha car. This boy was suspended from school 'cause baseball bats were on the schools list of prohibited dangerous weapons. :youcrazy:
:shocking: :what: I would hope that a 17 year old kid who is trying to boost his standing on a college application through extra curricular activities would at least show some responsability to the laws in place.
If you don't like this Zero Tolerance Law, then go through the proper channels to get it changed. In the mean time all of us whether we like it or not must abide by it or suffer the consequences.
Did he have the musket covered in his car so no one would steel it, or did he have it covered up because he knew he was breaking the law and didn't want to get caught?
The word "replica" musket is used. This could very well be an actual firing musket that is a copy of an original musket and just as lethal. Remember, he had 14 or 15 rolled black powder cartridges. Why would you need them if you couldn't load them. If you can load them you can top them off with a ball or minie. It only takes one shot to kill someone.
He gets no sympathy from me. He should have known better. I can't see where we can fault any official's or public servant's for doing their job. I think they did the right thing here for sure.
If you don't like this Zero Tolerance Law, then go through the proper channels to get it changed. In the mean time all of us whether we like it or not must abide by it or suffer the consequences.
Did he have the musket covered in his car so no one would steel it, or did he have it covered up because he knew he was breaking the law and didn't want to get caught?
The word "replica" musket is used. This could very well be an actual firing musket that is a copy of an original musket and just as lethal. Remember, he had 14 or 15 rolled black powder cartridges. Why would you need them if you couldn't load them. If you can load them you can top them off with a ball or minie. It only takes one shot to kill someone.
He gets no sympathy from me. He should have known better. I can't see where we can fault any official's or public servant's for doing their job. I think they did the right thing here for sure.
School has club, club has affiliation, affiliation has guns. Does not equal school has guns or school gave gun.
I'm an advisor on R/C model airplanes for an Explorer Post that meets evenings at a school and involves students of that school. That does not mean that if I give a kid a dangerous airplane the school is at fault, but that's where the lawsuit will go, because the school district has deeper pockets than I do.
Ohio Joe and Stumpkiller.....thanks,words to think about. My only (and last voice on this) is that to willfully kill someone is murder. Right?...Wrong! there's self defense, acts of war, defending a third party, protecting your property, and even state executions. A life is still taken, but differing cicumstances justify or allow the act to go unpunished. My problem with Zero tolerance is (not necessarily in this case) that common sense is not usually taken into consideration. A child is arrested and publically displayed before they get a chance to defend their actions or define the cicumstances. I simply feel that they should be heard and unless obvious attempt to harm is proven, it should be kept quiet. True, if a school or business has a ZT action should be taken when that rule is ignored...but give a chance to hear the explanation before passing sentence be it suspension or being fired. This forum is much too much fun and educational to get into politics and personal soul-searching on topical subjects like this. I apoligize for dragging it out. :sorry:
Amen...couldn't agree more!!
I get so sick of the D--- news media having the freedom to immediately throw all these issues up in the air for the sake of sensationalism and ratings...it's absolutely sickening how this is allowed to continue deteriorating basic privacy within our society...people can and do make mistakes, particularly young people, and they don't need to get branded for life because of some momentary, immature oversight...I've got to sign off now before I really say how I feel about it!!!!!! :curse: :curse:
I certainly agree that the news media is at best, the worse case of creeping crud the world has ever known. They should not have used this 17 year old's name. He is a minor.
I'm sure the finger pointing will start about who's the blame for this incident and it'll be the organization that gave him the musket in the first place.
I'm sure we haven't heard the last of either, as the anti gunner's will play this for all it's worth.
I think the best thing we can do is let it go. Let's not add any fuel to any fires.
I'm sure the finger pointing will start about who's the blame for this incident and it'll be the organization that gave him the musket in the first place.
I'm sure we haven't heard the last of either, as the anti gunner's will play this for all it's worth.
I think the best thing we can do is let it go. Let's not add any fuel to any fires.
The whole Columbine over-reaction thing is nation wide, Ive heard many such stories. I work in a High School and one day I wore a T-shirt with a Mountainman holding his flintlock. I had to borrow a shirt from the assistant principle and take off my Mountainman shirt. You never know, he could have jumped off my shirt and started shootin the place up.
Anyway, I feel bad for that kid. A simple ommission could end up screwin up his life. Just goes to show how out of control people's fear of guns has gotten.
Don
Anyway, I feel bad for that kid. A simple ommission could end up screwin up his life. Just goes to show how out of control people's fear of guns has gotten.
Don
A few points I'd like to make.
As to why a high schooler is driving to school, that's because most states have 16 as the legal driving age. Further, many high schoolers are 17, the legal age to enlist in the army with parental consent. Some are 18, legal age to enlist without consent. Old enough to go take human life, often lots of it in one whack for helo door gunners, and old enough to die or be seriously maimed for life, you're old enough to drive to school in my book. I couldn't get over it in the army. Guys under 21 trained on and issued M-60s and cannot purchase a handgun. Gee, that makes sense.
Zero tolerance laws need to be taken in the broader scope of the incremental step towards nanny government. Or selective enforcement of the concept. I bet most of the "zero tolerance" laws for even a PICTURE of a firearm in school already have certain sexual-related curriculum, even over objection of the parents. Yes, he shouldn't have brought a weapon to school. But, hell, when I was in high school, a kid brought an original Harper's Ferry musket to school for history class and the teacher and everyone thought it was cool. We were allowed to bring our own bows from home for archery class, even our compounds with well over 50 pound draw weight. This nation is turning into a bunch of absolute wimps. That needs to be said. This increasing reliance on government to "protect" everyone, including from themselves, is leading us right down the path from being the U.S. to USSR, Part Two: The Lost World. Again, no he shouldn't have brought the weapon to school. But I bet the government would be more than happy to hand him a REAL one if they needed him in Iraq.
As to why a high schooler is driving to school, that's because most states have 16 as the legal driving age. Further, many high schoolers are 17, the legal age to enlist in the army with parental consent. Some are 18, legal age to enlist without consent. Old enough to go take human life, often lots of it in one whack for helo door gunners, and old enough to die or be seriously maimed for life, you're old enough to drive to school in my book. I couldn't get over it in the army. Guys under 21 trained on and issued M-60s and cannot purchase a handgun. Gee, that makes sense.
Zero tolerance laws need to be taken in the broader scope of the incremental step towards nanny government. Or selective enforcement of the concept. I bet most of the "zero tolerance" laws for even a PICTURE of a firearm in school already have certain sexual-related curriculum, even over objection of the parents. Yes, he shouldn't have brought a weapon to school. But, hell, when I was in high school, a kid brought an original Harper's Ferry musket to school for history class and the teacher and everyone thought it was cool. We were allowed to bring our own bows from home for archery class, even our compounds with well over 50 pound draw weight. This nation is turning into a bunch of absolute wimps. That needs to be said. This increasing reliance on government to "protect" everyone, including from themselves, is leading us right down the path from being the U.S. to USSR, Part Two: The Lost World. Again, no he shouldn't have brought the weapon to school. But I bet the government would be more than happy to hand him a REAL one if they needed him in Iraq.
It's rather interesting to see the difference of opinions here, relating to geographical areas.
When I grew up, it was in a farm and ranch area. Most of us drove to school, since we worked before and after. And just about every one of us had a gun of some sort in the vehicle. Never any shootings, or any other related problems. The principle once borrowed my shotgun so he could hunt pheasants on the lunch break.
And today, in this area at least, you see parents picking up kids at school, with rifles in racks in the back window of the pickups. Do the LEO's freak out? Hell no. They know that if there was going to be any problem, it would not likely be by the local loggers and ranchers.
I think the kid did learn a very important lesson.
The government does not have your best interest at heart. Political correctness, and those who support it, are a very insidious sort of fascism. There was a reason for the Tenth Amendment. There were other causes than slavery for the War Between the States.
I do hope he thinks about what he has learned, and pass it on to his contemporaries. The do-gooder laws that have been passed over the years are Monday morning quarterback stuff, and have never solved a problem that I know of.
As one says on another web site, it is a citizens duty to love thier contry, but hate thier government.
When I grew up, it was in a farm and ranch area. Most of us drove to school, since we worked before and after. And just about every one of us had a gun of some sort in the vehicle. Never any shootings, or any other related problems. The principle once borrowed my shotgun so he could hunt pheasants on the lunch break.
And today, in this area at least, you see parents picking up kids at school, with rifles in racks in the back window of the pickups. Do the LEO's freak out? Hell no. They know that if there was going to be any problem, it would not likely be by the local loggers and ranchers.
I think the kid did learn a very important lesson.
The government does not have your best interest at heart. Political correctness, and those who support it, are a very insidious sort of fascism. There was a reason for the Tenth Amendment. There were other causes than slavery for the War Between the States.
I do hope he thinks about what he has learned, and pass it on to his contemporaries. The do-gooder laws that have been passed over the years are Monday morning quarterback stuff, and have never solved a problem that I know of.
As one says on another web site, it is a citizens duty to love thier contry, but hate thier government.
GobblerKnob
40 Cal.
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Raven ~ Your comment about bringing your bow to school conjured up several pleasant memories of my own. I, too, used to carry my compound to school, on the bus, to participate in archery at school. Hell our bus drivers used to carry rifles on the bus during the deer season in case they saw one while on their route. You are absolutely right about the Army grmy giving a kid an M-60 at 17 but can't buy a handgun or beer. I was one of them, too. If I had to choose, though, I'd take the M-60 over the beer any day! ::
My kids go to a very rural school district. I had to investigate an incident involving pellets raining down on the playground, which were fired by a couple hunters who happened across a flock of turkeys in the adjacent woodlot. There weren't any kids outside at the time, but one of the secretaries was taking her morning walk. She was not injured. I thought the world was coming to an end the way the local and state police came screaming up to the school. Once I discovered who the offenders were and what they were doing, it was business as usual for me, but the administration wanted them tarred and feathered.
It's sad to see how times have changed.
My kids go to a very rural school district. I had to investigate an incident involving pellets raining down on the playground, which were fired by a couple hunters who happened across a flock of turkeys in the adjacent woodlot. There weren't any kids outside at the time, but one of the secretaries was taking her morning walk. She was not injured. I thought the world was coming to an end the way the local and state police came screaming up to the school. Once I discovered who the offenders were and what they were doing, it was business as usual for me, but the administration wanted them tarred and feathered.
It's sad to see how times have changed.
Well, the kid really shouldn't have brought the gun to school. Not in this day and age. Besides he needed to clean it after firing black powder.
The authorities, school and police both, are IMO over zealous. There are mitigating factors here.
The DA will need t odecide if he is going to proceed with this. It maybe possible to gain a conviction at trial, but it would make for an interesting court battle. You see a muzzleloader is not a firearm or rifle under New York law.
Therefore he can possess it under the state penal law.
The authorities, school and police both, are IMO over zealous. There are mitigating factors here.
The DA will need t odecide if he is going to proceed with this. It maybe possible to gain a conviction at trial, but it would make for an interesting court battle. You see a muzzleloader is not a firearm or rifle under New York law.
Therefore he can possess it under the state penal law.
Rabbit
36 Cal.
Keith, are you sure in New York a muzzleloader is not a firearm? I believe once you have more than one component to shoot it, it becomes a firearm. At least with pistols it goes that way. Need a permit to be legal with a muzlleloader pistol if you have more than one component to shoot it.
Bluegrass
36 Cal.
- Joined
- May 17, 2004
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I'm startin' a revolt! Everybody git your grand pappys Civil War fightin' duds out, load up your ole '61 Springfield and go wreak havoc at your nearest high school! :haha: ( On secod thought, maybe not.)
Do they really think the guy brought a muzzleloader to school so he could kill people? :youcrazy: He'd be better off with a hatchet and a Ka-bar!
I'm one of the lucky ones. My principal is a shooter. If he saw my flintlock in my car, he'd have me get it out and show him how it works. We might even go shoot a few blanks in the soccer field after school. :thumbsup:
One of our substitute teachers is a deer hunter. So when he was sighting his bow in the soccer field, he came and got me out of lunch to fling a few arrows. He's my favorire sub! :haha:
Do they really think the guy brought a muzzleloader to school so he could kill people? :youcrazy: He'd be better off with a hatchet and a Ka-bar!
I'm one of the lucky ones. My principal is a shooter. If he saw my flintlock in my car, he'd have me get it out and show him how it works. We might even go shoot a few blanks in the soccer field after school. :thumbsup:
One of our substitute teachers is a deer hunter. So when he was sighting his bow in the soccer field, he came and got me out of lunch to fling a few arrows. He's my favorire sub! :haha:
Sometimes zero tolerance = zero intellegence.
In many states, perhaps all, there is a provision in the law that says if a jury thinks a law is unjust, they can throw it out, even if the evidence is overwhelming.
Or if one juror believes that, it would still result in a hung jury. :m2c:
In many states, perhaps all, there is a provision in the law that says if a jury thinks a law is unjust, they can throw it out, even if the evidence is overwhelming.
Or if one juror believes that, it would still result in a hung jury. :m2c:
