Student arrested with Black powder gun

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Techinically in NY a firearm is a pistol or cut down long gun. You do need a permit for a BP pistol if you have the components to load it. I was using firearm in my prior post in a more general sense I thought everyone would understand w/o getting into legalities. A rifle or shotgun is defined as using a cartridge. He was arrested for possessing the gun on school grounds, however it does not meet the legal definition. Article 265 NY Penal Law, if anyone really cares.

Having said that some NY DA's will prosecute felons possessing MLs, even though by NY Penal Law it is not a rifle or shotgun. I am not sure how they do in court,but I bet they win more than they lose. (As an aside I don't have a problem with this).

The pistol permit requirement for a ML pistol comes under a different part of the PL ( article 400).

Keith
 
It puzzles me how people on the east and west coast, can continually elect people to office, who immediately set out to restrict thier rights. I guess they have gotten accustomed to being fed the slop from the government trough.
It is not the job of the government to guarantee us a living. It also is not thier job to try and restrict rights given to the people. But apparently some are afraid to fight, preferring to be a whimpering sheep, trying to remain unnoticed in the flock.
Look at the Constitution, both of the nation, and of your state. They are actually very limited in thier powers, and are spending your money on these worthless programs and foolish laws. If they would keep thier nose out of our business, and just do what the law permits them, the nation would be out of debt, and business would flourish.
A good point on jury annulment. Most judges and prosecutors do not want people to know about the fully informed jury laws, and what thier rights are. If people don't stand up, learn thier rights, and excercise them, they deserve the government they get.
 
It puzzles me how people on the east and west coast, can continually elect people to office, who immediately set out to restrict thier rights. I guess they have gotten accustomed to being fed the slop from the government trough.


And this doesn't happen in the mid-states???...Montana? There's a thing called "campaign promises" that deceive all of us. Say what's necessary to get in office - then they do what they want to. Impeachment is such a drawn out process that vocal complaints by citizens are about as far as it goes . Someone earlier in the forum said its our duty to "love our country but hate our government"....My only thought on that is: Name a goverment that's better! I don't "hate" my goverment...I disagree with it's policies at times and wonder how (some) politicians can treat us like they do...but HATE!! NO.
 
There are 19 million people that live in New York. In my county there are only 200,000. Guess who sways the state-wide votes.

Your vote may count, but you only get to put it on two or three choices that are forced on you.

Help us vote on fruit.

What is your favorite fruit:
a.) Cranberry
b.) Olive

Thank you for helping to choose the country's favorite fruit.

Help us draft this bill.

All students should have fruit with school lunches and all state senators should get a 50% raise, and the state-wide road and highway repair fund should be diverted to build 15 new schools in New York City:

a.) Yes
b.) No

Thank you for helping to enact a new law.
 
"There's a thing called "campaign promises" that deceive all of us. Say what's necessary to get in office - then they do what they want to."

I do not mean to sound harsh on this subject, but this is the height of naivety. I will assume you are fairly young, and not accustomed to the political game.

Rule one. Politicians lie.
Rule two. If thier lips are moving, they are lying.

It is the citizens duty to look at a politicians voting record, before you vote. Many times, what they say, is not what they do. Look at the current presidential race. There is no way an intelligent person can justify, and rectify the record of people, who shall remain unnamed here. That is your job. You must look for the truth of what they do, and see if you can live with what they are doing, in your life, and in your grandchildrens' lives.

Look back at the previous administration. DO you know that Janet Reno wanted to start a file on re-enactors? And regulate out firearms? I'm not particularly comfortable with that, myself. They were saying, in essence, that we are criminals that need to be watched. Can you see anyone coming up in the next election who may have the same opinion, and want to take away your pet Pennesylvania rifle, because you are a threat? Rest assured, there are those in the government that have this in thier minds. It is our job to protect our freedoms. If someone votes for more social programs, that are illegal to start with, they are a very big part of the problem in this country.


Line item vetoes are a very good idea. There is so much pork added to each bill, that each should stand alone. As was pointed out, so many pork riders are put on each bill, to get something worthwhile, they are forced to vote for the ridiculous. This is what is putting us so far in debt. If the president would apply a line item veto, it would be good. Once he does it, it could be sent back to Foggy Bottom. At which time, all the senators and congressmen would begin to whine that school funding, and money for the poor and aged was being cut. At that time, the president should call a press conference, and begin reading the parts of the bills he had lined out. If the people knew the pork being tossed into the mix, there would be a very sudden revolt.

I don't know how things stand in other parts of the country, but here, we stand ready for revolution, or more properly, for civil war to break out in our lifetimes. I guess those who are fat and happy from government money will never stand up, but those of us who still live in AMERICA, are willing to fight for what the people did in the Revolution. At this point, we are far beyond the taxation and repression that they dealt with.

What will it take for you,(rhetorically) to stand up as a man? It isn't up to the politicians. It is up to we, the citizens, the people. WE are responsible for what happens in this country.
 
I don't know how things stand in other parts of the country, but here, we stand ready for revolution, or more properly, for civil war to break out in our lifetimes. I guess those who are fat and happy from government money will never stand up, but those of us who still live in AMERICA, are willing to fight for what the people did in the Revolution. At this point, we are far beyond the taxation and repression that they dealt with.


What will it take for you,(rhetorically) to stand up as a man? It isn't up to the politicians. It is up to we, the citizens, the people. WE are responsible for what happens in this country.

Now who's talking like a youngster. Lots of people spent lots of time to build as good a country and political system as was possible. We're not about to blow it up because there are a few parts that don't suit our individual needs.

Hold a revolution against who? My niece and nephews who are in the military now? You'll never get close to enough decision makers to make an impact before they Waco and Ruby Ridge your butt into the dirt. There is no "us" and "them" to start a revolution with. We have met the enemy, and he is us.

Politicians are like sharks teeth. Knock some out amd more just like them take their place. Maybe the answer is to stop voting for politicians. No third term for anyone, ever, in any office.
 
This thread seems to be getting rather political.
As a general rule, some politics are OK here if they deal with the original thread however, we seem to have departed from that subject and ventured into broad generalizations about the government in general.
Many months ago, we, the members decided we didn't want Politics to interfere with our fun here, so, can we get back to the dumb kid and his arrest?? :)
 
BIG AMEN!!!!.... :thumbsup: :agree: :thumbsup: and I'm not "young" by anyones standards.
 
"Lots of people spent lots of time to build as good a country and political system as was possible. We're not about to blow it up because there are a few parts that don't suit our individual needs.

Hold a revolution against who?"

Pretty clear. All you have to do is to see who has done things that are treasonous to the well being of the nation. It is public record. There are specific rules for the governing of state and nation. Have they violated it?

"My niece and nephews who are in the military now?"

Nope. They are sworn to uphold the Constitition. Most military and LEO's I have talked to are for a free, and Constitutional, nation.

"You'll never get close to enough decision makers to make an impact before they Waco and Ruby Ridge your butt into the dirt."

Exactly what they want you to think. Apparently you do, and are too afraid to stand up for yourself and family now. I'd as soon die fighting, as on my knees. Ruby Ridge, when boiled down to it, was because of a $300 tax bill on a sawed off shotgun. I'm sure Vicki and her baby were very dangerous. After all, it was a full three hundred FEET for the sniper to make his shot with a scoped rifle. Now, how could he have known who he was shooting? With my elk rifle and a scope, I can tell you how many eyelashes an elk has at that range. And something tells me, he had a lot better scope than I do. It's nice to see you are happy with people being killed for taxes. Just the kind of fear and acceptance the government wants all to have.

Waco? Same thing. Unregistered weapons was the worst thing they had on them, another $300 tax bill. Then it turned into, "It's for the Children", who the government went ahead and killed, for thier own good, of course. Or was it for thier religious beliefs?... That may have been something good to kill them for, too... Yep, good idea, let's keep that as a policy, by golly. Damned religious zealots.

"There is no "us" and "them" to start a revolution with. We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Both of the main party apparatus, on both sides, are the real enemy. When is the last time you can think of a citizen statesman being elected to a major office? Those are who were intended to run the country. Not those pushed and pulled by special interests. If they would follow the laws, there would be no problem. However, they are looking for the best way to line thier pockets.
Who is "Them"? Those who blindly follow directions from the top, even when blatantly wrong. Ever hear of Hitler's Germany? Third Reich ring a bell? We have watched people killed here the last few years in forest fires, because envronmental regulations wouldn't allow water to be dipped from a stream by a helicopter to make a water drop, and save lives. Do a search. Forest service documents.
Roads kept closed to fire fighters, while the forest burns, because the internal combustion engine may cause environmental damage.
Do a search. Forest Service documents.
We're damn tired of the green nazis here, and have reached the end of our rope. Do a search on Green Nazis. Follow thier Links. All named as domestic terrorists by the FBI, and all have infiltrated deeply into the government. I wouldn't say this if the info wasn't there, and it is all THIER web pages. They are the ones directing the education in your schools, public TV, radio, and for a large part network TV.

No, I don't see a big problem in figuring out who "THEM" is.

"Politicians are like sharks teeth. Knock some out amd more just like them take their place."

Yes, but the ones following may start noticing why the teeth are being knocked out, and may desire to retire with thier own teeth.

Maybe the answer is to stop voting for politicians. No third term for anyone, ever, in any office.

AGREED!

--------------------
 
:sorry:Sorry for going off on the politics so strong. Made my last post while the previous admonishion was being posted. I will try to restrain myself, but see it all as cause and effect, and unintended consequences to the citizens.

I will quietly try to stiffle myself, for now.

However, I will be pleased to discuss politics intelligently and civilly with anyone through PM's or email. :peace:
 
This thread seems to be getting rather political.
As a general rule, some politics are OK here if they deal with the original thread however, we seem to have departed from that subject and ventured into broad generalizations about the government in general.

Agreed.

Let's get back to the original discussion - the kid took a gun/firearm/dangerous weapon to school and got busted. It's hard to make a judgment without knowing all the facts, but on the surface, I side with the law.

The kid made a mistake. I've taught my children to take responsibility for their actions and not blame the authorities for their mistakes. If my son were dumb enough to take a gun to school, I would expect him to suffer the consequences. I would be embarrassed if he tried to blame anybody but himself.

No, you don't need a FFL to ship some muzzleloaders through the mail, but we all know that's not the point when it comes to it's being "used" as a firearm.

When Cabelas ships a muzzleloader, it's not considered a "firearm". If you think that means you can take one on an airplane, you're in for a very expensive lesson in the law. :haha:
 
Although I agree with ric carter on many points, I am glad this post has returned to its original topic.
If you are ever called for jury duty, you have an obligation as a citizen to serve.
You also have an obligation as a citizen to vote to see that justice(not the law) is served.
This young man made a small mistake. I made mistakes when I was young. I was told that I screwed up, and that was the end of it.
A few years ago I was listening to a talk radio show hosted by Dr. Whatsername, and a lady said her 13yr. old daughter had gotten in trouble at school for the first time for bringing a white powder substance as a joke.
Dr. Whatsername said the girl of course needed counciling.
Counciling for what?? 13yr. old kids make mistakes. The principal of the the school should have explained to the child why this was the wrong thing to do and that should have been the end of it!!!
Why does our society make mountains out of molehills? :imo: :m2c:
 
Well regarding Stumpkiller's poll, I, for one, vote for the olive. I'm pretty fond of kalamatas. Don't like them green ones, though. :thumbsup:
 
Why does our society make mountains out of molehills?

I believe it's roots are at the educational level. We took the power away from school official's to act on matters such as the one we're discussing here, and replaced it with the threat of lawsuits. "Correct my kid and I'll sue you for everything you've got." These type of additudes rule now.

There was a time in this country that we had shooting ranges under school auditoriums where students could learn gun safety, marksmanship, and responsibility. Not any more.

We now teach that if you do something wrong we'll just slap you on the hand (not really because you can be sued) and we'll pass the buck and let someone else deal with it.

I don't know? ::
 
Well regarding Stumpkiller's poll, I, for one, vote for the olive. I'm pretty fond of kalamatas. Don't like them green ones, though. :thumbsup:

1) Is it true that a virgin olive, is a very ugly olive?

2) Does "Virgin Olive Oil" come in three grades, ugly, uglier, and ugliest?

3) Would I prefer a discussion of ugly olives over the current campaign bashings for the up-coming election??

I vote yes, On all 3 issues! :crackup: :crackup:

This kid with the musket is apparently in trouble due to the over eagerness of someone "thinking" they were doing the right thing, and over reacting. A sad state of affairs.

Russ
 
i don't know if this is getting of the origonal subject
posted. but here in western penn. our local comunity
college has muzzleloading gun building classes. now
they are held at night and most are adults. when you fill out the entery form you are listed as a student!!
plus you bring a gun to school every class. you start with parts, but as the weeks go by the end results is a fully
working firearm :D so far we havn't had any opposition,
but how much longer is some anti gun college professer :nono: going to let that keep happening :imo:
 
Webster's second definition for tolerance: "a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something" ( Webster's first definition is about enduring pain )

Zero tolerance is relinquising responsibility for making decisions. Keep in mind that folks who made this policy a law are the same people who hold "strong beliefs... differing from or conflicting with" most law abiding gun owners. In my opinion, once a zero tolerence attitude takes hold, wisdom and decernment are gone. That being said, in order to abide by the law, schools have given up their options and are forced to react as they do. :(
 
Zero tolerance is relinquising responsibility for making decisions.

Well, that's one way to define it.

Zero tolerance for guns in school simply means, "you can not bring a gun to school, for ANY reason". Who in his right mind would disagree with that?

I have "zero tolerance" for someone who breaks into my house and tries to kill me. Have I given up my "responsibility for making decisions" or have I and made a well thought out decision?

Once a case goes to court, it can be decided if there are extenuating circumstances.
 
I have "zero tolerance" for someone who breaks into my house and tries to kill me. Have I given up my "responsibility for making decisions" or have I and made a well thought out decision?

Good point Dale - I was referring to the rule of law called zero tolerence. Self defense is a personal responsibility and involves making the proper decision of reacting to the threat in a responsible mannor based on the circumstances.

Zero tolerance for guns in school simply means, "you can not bring a gun to school, for ANY reason". Who in his right mind would disagree with that?

There was a case not too long ago of zero tolerence when a student brought a tiny plastic "gun" from an action figure set to school... I wonder if anyone in their right mind would agree to that?
 
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