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super fast flint ignition

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CoyoteJoe

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White lightin' vent liners promise "100% faster ignition" whatever that means. Some locks also claim super fast ignition and Swiss powder is also supposed to be super fast.
So, my question is: If I combine all of this super fast stuff is there any danger my gun will go off before I pull the trigger? :grin:
 
Lemme do the math here. Hmmm... carry the one... minus the foo factor... hmmm... Nope, yer safe from everything except Murphy. But then Murphy's always there, so yes it could go off before you pull the trigger!
 
Not only that, but if you get things tweaked just right, you'll be able to walk into the woods and find a 12 pointer, field dressed and sitting on a cart! :rotf:
 
With that liner in the correct position, the proper lock that is tuned correctly and a good brand of powder like swiss or goex, you'll have a flint gun as fast as any cap gun made, maybe even faster. :thumbsup:
You can't drill a hole in the side of a barrel and slap some crappy cheap lockon the side and expect it will go off any faster than Phess Parkers old flint gun in the daniel boone series of the 1950's. :haha:
 
add three or four recoil reducing devices and when you fire it will pull it forward. :bull:
 
"You can't drill a hole in the side of a barrel and slap some crappy cheap lockon the side and expect it will go off any faster than Phess Parkers old flint gun in the daniel boone series of the 1950's"

How fast were the originals compared to all the super fast improved liner type stuff everyone seems to have to use today? I have a plain hole in the last gun I made 5/64 and it works fine, I wonder if the folks back then found what they had to be quite sufficient?
 
Coyote Joe: I think your safe as long as you don't increase the powder load.
If you increase the powder load to get another 300 feet per second velocity gain out of it, you will be in trouble.
Here's why:
Lets say your shooting with a load that gives 1500 feet per second velocity.
At that velocity, it will take 300 feet/1500 FPS = 0.2 seconds for the ball to go that 100 yards.
Now sense the increased load covers the same 300 feet 300 feet per second faster, it must cover that distance a second faster than the slow load, but because it only took 0.2 seconds with the slow load, it now will get there 0.2-1.0 = -.8 seconds so you see, the ball will get there almost a second before you fire the gun!! :grin: :rotf:
 
Uh, I remember reading something one of the old flintlock wing shooters said, something along the lines of; "An old military musket in good order, with a big touch hole, will go off much faster than the finest Manton with a small touch hole."
 
I think the old timers were more worried about the gun going off, than how fast the ball went, or how quick ignition occurred. If it went off, they had a real chance of living a few moments more. You saw larger touch holes, and strong locks, not because they were needed to fire the gun, but because the lock might take a real beating if the shooter had to use the gun as a club. Touch hole liners were things found on very expensive guns, and not usually on the common rifles found on the frontier. Think about how difficult it is to make a tap to thread an inside thread. These were very expensive tools, and only the larger smiths could afford to own one. Without a tap to threat the liner, how would you hold it in? It would be much easier to pull the breech plug, cut off the end of the barrel, retread the breech for the plug and drill a new touch hole, and make a new stock for the barrel. I do think that if they saw the muzzle breaks now available, they would have wanted one, too. It just would not have been as impressive on the end of a muzzle loading gun. I always have thought that the BOSS system, where the break also serves as a floating barrel weight to adjust the harmonics of the barrel to a given load, rather than requiring the shooter to tailor his load to a given gun, is one of the better, if misunderstood, advancements in firearms technology in the late 20th century. I truly expect to see it show up in the military firearms, perhaps in sniper rifles, where the utmost accuracy is sought by shooters for obvious reasons. The muzzle blast issue is what has to be solved for that to happen.
 
I was inclined to go along with you and what you said about the way they can now tune a rifle with the mere presence of a movable weight. Incredible isn't it and you may have hit on something about the millitary will probably use it if they aren't already. It would definitely make a better shooter out of someone quicker. Not sure if this is the place to be on this subject but was fascinated by the thought of it being so simple and right in front of us all this time. Way to go,

rabbit03

ps maybe I will look into putting a device on my competition flintlock!
 
I wonder if the folks back then found what they had to be quite sufficient?
When you look at the pains the english went thru with vent liners, patent breeches, reccessed breeches, all kinds of "tricked out" lock work, I'd say they weren't happy with the performance of a hole drilled in the side of a barrel. Of course, those english fellows were pretty concerned with hitting feathered creatures flying thru the air at a high rate of speed too.[/color]
 
sabretech said:
Not only that, but if you get things tweaked just right, you'll be able to walk into the woods and find a 12 pointer, field dressed and sitting on a cart!
I did find that once, but was afraid I'd get my butt shot off if I touched it. :grin:
And Zonie, I like your math, did you do the math for the "white Lightnin" folks? Maybe you can explain what "100% faster" really means. I understand that 200 fps is 100% faster than 100 fps but what does 100% faster mean when talking delay time?
 
CoyoteJoe said:
sabretech said:
Not only that, but if you get things tweaked just right, you'll be able to walk into the woods and find a 12 pointer, field dressed and sitting on a cart!
I did find that once, but was afraid I'd get my butt shot off if I touched it. :grin:
And Zonie, I like your math, did you do the math for the "white Lightnin" folks? Maybe you can explain what "100% faster" really means. I understand that 200 fps is 100% faster than 100 fps but what does 100% faster mean when talking delay time?

Obviously you've never used a white lightinig liner.....
 
I guess 100% faster would be twice as fast?

If it takes .06 seconds on average for a gun with a standard touch hole to fire after pulling the trigger, and installing the White Lightning liner changes that same gun/lock so that it fires on average in .03 seconds, that would be twice as fast, or, a 100% increase.
 
But will it make you shooter better? I like what one old gunner said when the Senderos and other beanfield guns came out. "I've got a four hundred yard rifle!" said the owner. "Ah," asked the old gunner, "But are YOU a four hundred yard shot?" I guess cutting .03 seconds off ignition time is probably a good thing, but how good? Thought the whole point of flinters was to take it sort of slow and easy and follow through.

RedFeather
 
Thought the whole point of flinters was to take it sort of slow and easy and follow through.
If you have a gun with slow ignition that's good advice. I don't shoot my double flint shotguns any different than I shoot my double cartrige shotguns. I make no allowances for delay, because there is none. Follow thru when bird shooting is practiced no matter what type of ignition you're using, it's the only way to consistantly hit anything flying through the air.
 
I had a problem with my T/C flint White Mountain carbine with slow ignition. I took it to a well-known muzzleloading gun builder and he installed a White Lightining vent liner. This had improved my ignition time by at least 100% maybe more.
 
I almost bought a PA flinter but someone said to look at the touch hole. It was halfway under the pan. They said T/C had some problems like this.

RedFeather
 
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