Swabbing, a safety measure

[Rifleman1776]

The following was posted by a friend on another ml forum. I'm sure he won't mind the message being spread around. Incidentially, I witnessed a similar incident at one time.
I swab between every shot. And, I'm going to stop passing out gold stars to the guys who brag "I can shoot (pick yer number) shots without swabbing."
Well goody, goody for your guys. I think it is stupid and dangerous to not swab beteen every shot.

At a club shoot yesterday we had an incident that could have been really tragic for one of our shooters. He was shooting a percussion .50 caliber Lyman Great Plains Rifle with GOEX 3fg powder. He'd been shooting for a couple of hours and he doesn't clean between shots until it gets hard to load. This is, as you know, a practice many shooters follow all the time. He returned from the firing line to the loading bench about 20 feet behind the firing line, put the rifle on half cock, removed the old cap and began to reload. He poured the powder from his can into his powder measure, covered the powder can spout as required in our club, and poured the powder down the barrel. He took a lubed patch, placed a ball on it, and using his short starter, started it down the bore. He then took his range rod and had just started to push the ball down the bore when all hell broke loose.

The rifle fired with a loud muffled sound sending the range rod and ball through the 3/4 inch plywood and shingle roof about 10 feet over his head and up through the branches of a tall pine. The badly twisted metal rod was recovered about 25 yards out on the range. When the range rod he was holding came flying out of the barrel it severely lacerated two of his fingers and broke one of them. Apparently that knocked his hand out of line with the bore and the ball didn't hit him. However, it certainly called for a fast trip to the emergency room after we got all the bleeding stopped.

Our best guess as to what caused the ignition was a smoldering ember back in the patent breech or even in the flash channel that was far enough back that the powder poured in the barrel didn't initially contact it. However, when he started the patched ball down the bore the resulting air being compressed ahead of the ball pushed the powder onto the ember.

I think there is a very good chance that had he wiped the bore with a wet patch between shots this might not have happened because (1) he might have contacted the ember with the wet patch and put it out (2) the compressed air ahead of the wet patch might have caused the ember to flare up and burn out (3) the extra time required to wipe the bore with a wet patch might have allowed the ember to die out on its own.

I always wipe the bore between shots with a wet patch because it seems to improve accuracy for me. But the added safety aspect is something to think about.

 

[bpd303]

The main reason Cannoneer's swab between each shot. One might load a thousand rounds without encountering an ember, but that 1 in 1000 will be catastrophic.
Thanks for reminding us.

 

[FishDFly]

There are many advantages to shoots in organized clubs, they have safety rules and Range Officers who walk the line looking for unsafe conditions.

The rules are there for a reason, someone was hurt at some time in the past to establish the rules.

Organized shoots are the safest places to shoot.

Range rod, another good use for one versus wooden ramrods, wooden ramrod most likely would have gone through his hand versus knocking it to the side.

To me someone bragging they can shoot 50 times without cleaning is like bragging they can go 50 days without brushing their "tooth".

I was at a shoot where one guy shot a hole in the bill of his ball cap, the trigger was a bit light.

 

[Vaino]

Been shooting MLers since 1976 and only swab when needed...when the PRB gets a little hard to shove down. This usually happens between the 8th to 10th shots. Never had an experience as mentioned above....of course my flintlocks just have a flat breechplug surface where "smoldering embers" can't lurk.

The "fancy", sorta patent breech systems have been in my Hawken builds and these I admit have been swabbed more often....every 3-5 shots. This is because of the harder loading conicals.I don't "swab" the bore as such...just run a wire brush down and dump the debris.

I can certainly realize that w/ all the MLing shooters at the many ranges in the country.....that some mishaps would occur, some due to faulty techniques and some due to chance......Fred

 

[Black Hand]

...and only swab when needed...when the PRB gets a little hard to shove down.

Ditto.
For me, this might be after 20-30 rounds. Loading is MUCH easier since I switched to bear grease (from Bore Butter) and I haven't had the bore foul to any significant degree since.

 

[M. De Land]

I can see how enough fouling build up could potentially support an ember in a confined area such as a powder chamber but also wonder if on hot summer days and repetitive shots are made if there is not enough heat generated on internal metal to cause cooks offs as well.
One of the reasons I like the wiper fluid patch lube is you basically are swabbing each time you load.
In cannonry most accidents are caused by wadding which definitely does produce embers. I don't use any for that reason and always wait five full minutes between shots in the bowling ball mortar, load off set from muzzle and lower the ball with a harness rather than with my hands down the bore. MD

 

[Black Hand]

...also wonder if on hot summer days and repetitive shots are made if there is not enough heat generated on internal metal to cause cooks offs as well.

As the ignition temperature of BP is ~570F and the ignition temperature of wood is somewhere around 480F, it is unlikely that the barrel (of a rifle or smoothbore) would heat up enough (when shooting) to "cook off" a load of powder without the wood stock bursting into flame...

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Not to start another row about this subject, but in this case wouldn’t blowing down the barrel been another safety measure that might have prevented this accident?

 

[Black Hand]

Not to start another row about this subject, but in this case wouldn’t blowing down the barrel been another safety measure that might have prevented this accident?

Yes... :thumbsup:

 

[FishDFly]

Blowing down the barrel is not allowed in sanctioned matches.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

So, do they require you to swab between shots at sanctioned matches?

 

[FishDFly]

Yep.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Really? If I go to a sanctioned match and load my rifle immediately after firing, without running a wet patch down my barrel I will have committed a safety violation? Will I receive a warning from the safety officer or will I be DQ’ed?

 

[tenngun]

I blow down the barrel and have almost 40 years. Some think it unsafe or unnessasary, and you can't do it in formal shoots. I swab every 5th shot. If I was told to not blow I would think about a lightly damp patch tween shots.
I think it was Val Forgget who wrote about loading a musket and came to the part about reloading. Said words to the effect of 'hurry up lets shoot it again... Stop right there. a soldier had to load fast or risk a bayonet, we don't.
And what is the big deal about swabbing? For me its just part of shooting, lick pricking toucholes or wiping the pan.

 

[pargent]

.There is quite a difference in the way a cannon is loaded and a small arm (type of wadding ,windage and powder charge ) , that said we are comparing different types of smallarm matches , which have different safety rules for their own reasons . Personaly I shoot predomantly matches that have one shooter at the line at a time , but when shooting longrange matches there are more than one on the line shooting and I will swab between shoots to keep consistency as fowling build up greatly increases bullet drop ( shooting a cap lock military rifle with minnies ), but care must be taken because over zelous swabbing or to wet a patch or swab will leed to miss fires all the time , patent breeches are prone to this . In these matches I try to keep the bore in a slightly fowled condition because in my rifle a clean bore throws bullets all over the target at any range let alone at 500 yards . For the other matches I am using flint locks with a standard breech both in smoothbore and rifle the ranges are only 25 &50 yards except for musket which has some shots at 75-80 yards , the time between shots can be up to 5-10 minutes , all the powder is burnt in the shot , there is very little fowling build up , so with a good load combo one can load and shoot all day with out worrying about fowling in the bore . This is the case for other more experienced shooters in these matches while others will struggle to load twice without cleaning the bore , their load combo has to be wrong for these matches .Experienced shooters can also compete in rapid fire team shoots quite safely as well it is all about the technics used and the manner in which they are applied pertaining to each match , and good black powder experienced range staff also help . There is more to black powder shooting than sitting at a bench and we all should pull our collective heads out of our arses and acknowledge other forms and types of matches for the good of the sport , got to go I just realised this soap box has no SWL printed on the side.

 

[meanmike8665]

NMLRA rule # 1110 swabbing between shots is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED. You will not be DQ or asked to leave a National shoot or Territorial, however I have seen upity club RO's get their tails in a ringer over such things.
Michael

PS, I'm a certified NMLRA range officer.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Thank you Mike, for your reply. I knew about the rule on blowing down the barrel. Did not know about barrel swabbing recommendation. But I think that blowing down the barrel is safer for guns with a patent breach. That is why I refuse to attend sanctioned matches and discourage others from doing so.

 

[Zonie]

Nothin' like someone discouraging others from shootin' in a shooting match, I allways say.

 

[roundball]

...and only swab when needed...when the PRB gets a little hard to shove down.

Ditto.
For me, this might be after 20-30 rounds. Loading is MUCH easier since I switched to bear grease (from Bore Butter) and I haven't had the bore foul to any significant degree since.

Yes, it's amazing how simple "facts" about different lubes and bore conditions flush old wives tales down the toilet where they belong.
:hatsoff:
Strong pointed posts attempting to put down how others do things are usually made by individuals who lack the basic understanding about the effects of different lubes, and live in fear that they might be found out, as is happening.

As you know, it's all about bore condition and keeping the fouling soft so the next patched ball will wipe the bore clean when its seated down...repeats after each individual shot.
A great lube is Hoppes No.9 PLUS BP...an outstanding lube that serves this purpose very well. For example, when I'm just plinking 40-50 shots at the range using Goex 3F with patches wet with Hoppes, I never have to wipe the bore until I'm done for the trip home...then it's just both sides of one patch and the bore is practically clean.

And as people like you and others know of course, there is absolutely nothing unsafe or stupid about it...LOL

 

[meanmike8665]

Dan, I am sorry you feel that way, you might think of it this way over the last 85 years the NMLRA has been holding matches they have seen more shooting and problems than we will in a life time and with that experience they have the right to make a safety call to protect all participants and their safety record is pretty good. I think some fine men stood their ground for what they thought was for the good of muzzle loading not just their opinions and the NMLRA is still here like them or not.
One last thing about blowing down the barrel, why is a good idea to stick the muzzle of a gun in your mouth?
Well, I am sure a whole bunch of you won't like what has been said and just like those from the other side of the street on this subject, I won't change my position. Blowing down the barrel is not needed for any reason.

Michael