swabbing between rounds

[aragorn]

Since starting to shoot my Pedersoli Flint 45 cal Kentucky about two months ago, the first time I've ever shot black powder, I've regularly been swabbing between rounds - fixing the jag to the ramrod, spitting lightly on a cleaning patch and pushing it once down the barrel to about two or three inches from the breech. This seems to remove a lot of fouling and also occupies a minute or two, following Pedersoli's advice that there should be a gap of about this length before loading again in case of embers from the previous ignition.
Am I doing the right thing? What do other people do?
The problems I've had doing this have occured after about ten rounds and after I've inadvertantly pushed the patch right down to the breech (easy to do when you're used to using the ramrod to pack a load!). On the first occasion, the ramrod became stuck and I had to go back to my workshop and pull it out using a bench vise. On the second occasion, I loaded afterwards and then couldn't ignite - I eventually had to pull the ball and clean out the load. On both of these occasions the problem I think was pushing fouling residue down and compressing it into the breech/touchhole area, thus my care ever since to pull the jag back well before it reaches the breech (the problem with doing that is creating a small ledge of fouling resistance just above the point where the top of the ball should be seated, meaning an extra push is needed in the next loading to ensure the ball is seated against the powder and not the fouling ...)
All advice/experience greatly appreciated.
PS I'm using .440 ball and .015 patch, either the prelubed Ox-yoke .40-.49 cal patches or Remington's .44-.54 cal patches self-lubed with Wonderlube 1000 - at the moment I prefer the latter because they're a bit larger and less finicky, especially with numb fingers in the Great White North ...

 

[bob1961]

i don't know if your gun has what they call a pat. breech....my T/C hawken has it and you can't go passed it....at the range i swab between shots as i want to have the same condition from shot to shot for load developing....when hunting you should only get a shot or two....but just like at the range i do the same thing out hutning when i have to reload.............bob

 

[Chickenfax]

Hey Strider,

Hmmm... That seems a little odd to me. Perhaps you should try some of Stumpy's Moose Milk. Do a search on it if you need the recipe. Spitting on the patch prolly ain't gettin' 'er dun.
My routine for target shooting is to send a wet "milk" patch down the barrel (all the way baby) a couple of times with the same patch. Then follow with a dry patch. Load, shoot, repeat.
When it is colder than a <insert snappy saying> and I am shooting competition, forget any cleaning between shots. My goal is to get back into the barn and thaw the fingers. After about 6-7 shots without cleaning, fouling is bad enough to not allow me to seat the ball all the way. Cleaning between shots for target purposes works best for me.
On the other hand, perhaps your breech is different than mine and therefore your method is the way.
Experiment and see what you come up with. If you do use a spit patch for cleaning, I would suggest a liberal application of spit. Redman works for this and is a great dissolver of... gums/teeth/stomach. :crackup:

Good luck.
me

 

[robinghewitt]

Swabbing between rounds has always been the American way, back in the 1800's we managed to dispose of the American international team with a quick rule change to ban it. Seems they couldn't compete without swabbing :: had to withdraw :crackup:

 

[Darkhorse]

Try getting the patch a little wetter, chewing it works well. But not dripping wet. Then when swabbing run your patch all the way down everytime.
If you go 10 shots without swabbing the last 2 or 3 inches of your barrel then you are really caking up the fouling at that point. So when you do run a patch down there is a lot of gunk to grab it. And also when you seat a ball there will be a lot more gunk being pushed ahead of it to clog up the touchhole.
If its cold and dry then the fouling could be getting harder. I try to not go over a couple of shots without swabbing with a real wet patch if I'm using the regular ramrod. If it gets stuck its too hard to pull it out. (read vicegrips and a pad over the RR to help stop marking it up)
For this reason you should invest in a good range rod for your out of a hunting environment shooting.
Blackpowder shooting is a learning experience. At least your using a wet patch to clean with. Most emergencys I see involve a cleaning attempt with a dry patch and a dirty bore.

 

[Dave K]

Squire Robin are "we" that old! Any rate when I am working up a load or shooting competition, I will swab with moose milk between shots. I "dampen" that patch and run it ALL the way down to the breech. Also you want a jag that is snug enough not to lose the patch when you pull it out, but loose enough not to push the cruds into the breech area. The idea is when you pull the patch back up and out, it bunches up and brings the cruds up with it.Also, pick your vent after a swabbing so that if you push any cruds aside, that you may have shoved down when swabbing. You don't want a drippy wet patch to swab, just damp. If still too crusty, use another damp patch. This is why the English are over there and we are here! :crackup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Swabbing between rounds has always been the American way, back in the 1800's we managed to dispose of the American international team with a quick rule change to ban it. Seems they couldn't compete without swabbing had to withdraw

We just had the 190th anniversary of the Battle of New Orleans. Seems it's better to swab with a damp patch between shots than to leave the seat of your pants smoking on the field behind you somewhere. ::

I use a thinner patch and/or a grease lube when I want to shoot a string without intershot wiping.

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Strider,

This swabbing the bore between shots (and cleaning) has been extensively written about in other threads on this forum, and you might want to read this information.

The replies to your post have contained good information. These other threads contain quite a bit of in-depth information about these two sujects.

Best regards, John L. Hinnant

 

[robinghewitt]

Aw shucks, does that mean I can't stick in my .02p

 

[2172]

Strider, I usually do a 5 shot string before swabbing, and then use a patch wet with one of the patented "mouse pee" mixtures like Black Out or Butches' bore bright...I follow that with at least one, sometimes two, dry patches.
Robin, you can put in tuppence and point out that the battle of New Orleans was fought after the war was over..Hank

 

[jaydee4570]

Strider,

I have a Hatfield 45 cal. flinter, which Pedersoli made the parts for. It has a patent breech the same as yours. If I swab all the way to the bottom with a damp patch it seems to get crud and moisture into the patent breech, and like you found, the rifle will not fire until it is cleaned out. This is my first rifle with such a pronounced patent breech and I haven't found an answer other than to do as you are doing and not swab all the way down. I've never had this problem with any of my other rifles, so it must be somehow related to the patent breech. If you find a better solution I'd love to hear it!!!

 

G'day,

I like to swab between shots in front stuffers. In Australia a lot of us use "Wet Ones". These are moist towelletes that we get from the supermarket. I wrap one around a bristle brush and run it down the barrel. It dries pretty quickly so I generally do not dry the barrel afterwards. :results:

Cheers from down under
Aussie Bob

 

[Birddog6]

Looking at the left pair of jags, this is a .54 cal jag & the left one is std. and the right one you can see is modified & has tapered sharper edges. On the .54 jag the top land is about .025 under bore and the other lands is .020 under bore size. (On bores under this such as a ,40 cal, I do the top land .015 and the other lands .020)
All lands are tapered back toward the base of the jag & they are sharpened. This is done in a drill press & sith a simple 3 cornered metal file. (hand drill in a vice will work)
These angles lands lets the jag & patch push past the cruds & the sharp edge gathers the patch & fouling on the outstroke.

Good tip! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Never thought about angling the jag lips.


OH JEESE! I'm Sorry! I thought I was quoting this post in a reply but I edired the original. Sorry! Sorry! Sorry!

 

[aragorn]

Thanks very much everyone - I've learned more from this than I would from months of trial and error, and will look up those other threads as suggested. I was especially interested to hear about the patent breech and others having a similar problem to me with compacted crud - any more Pedersoli frontiersmen out there with this experience? On the other hand, it sounds as if I should be wetting my patch more, and maybe if I then swab right down to the breech from the first shot onwards there'll be less of a buildup. If the problem persists I'll try following with a dry patch, and also look at experimenting with different jags.
Another thought occurs to me. I've been using Goex 2f, and maybe if I switch to 3f - suggested to me by Rebel yesterday on a different thread - then I'll get less fouling, and things will be more manageable.
Lots to learn!

 

[roundball]

Thanks very much everyone - I've learned more from this than I would from months of trial and error, and will look up those other threads as suggested. I was especially interested to hear about the patent breech and others having a similar problem to me with compacted crud - any more Pedersoli frontiersmen out there with this experience? On the other hand, it sounds as if I should be wetting my patch more, and maybe if I then swab right down to the breech from the first shot onwards there'll be less of a buildup. If the problem persists I'll try following with a dry patch, and also look at experimenting with different jags.
Another thought occurs to me. I've been using Goex 2f, and maybe if I switch to 3f - suggested to me by Rebel yesterday on a different thread - then I'll get less fouling, and things will be more manageable.
Lots to learn!

No question Goex FFFg will foul much less...and...if you switch to a total regimen of Natural Lube 1000, you won't have to wipe between shots at all...ie: I shoot 40 shots in a row on my range trips, never swab at all until I'm ready for the drive home
eace:

 

[flaming canvas]

What are you using for patch lube? Using good wet spit patches will take care of the fouling when you load, and it will push the fouling down on top of the powder charge where it will be sent downrange. :imo: No inbetween wiping is necessary. My record was 84 shots without cleaning the bore and I only quit because the rendezvous ended.

The business about waiting between shots is mostly lawyerspeak. Before everyone chimes in, yes it is possible, but when was the last time anyone had a powder charge ignited by an ember? Just keep the muzzle pointed away from your face. Even in speed shoots with premeasured charges and using a loading block, maybe 25 seconds between shots, I've never seen it happen. :imo:

 

[aragorn]

I'm using Wonderlube 1000 plus, applied by hand to .44-.54 cal .015 Remington patches. The BP veteran at the shop where I bought it also told me spit was best, so I'll try that too. From what everyone says the best improvement for me may come from switching from 2f to 3f.
Yes, I'd wondered about the danger of embers. I've just finished reading Richard Holmes' excellent Redcoat: the British Soldier in the Age of Horse and Musket (published in the UK by HarperCollins, 2001) and especially enjoyed his chapter on the trials and tribulations of musketry. If embers really were such a problem, then all those soldiers speed-loading their Brown Besses during battle would have constantly been blowing their heads off - yet it seems to have been a fairly unusual occurrence.

 

[Dave K]

You are right Strider, but I do have an account here in a book on flasks, where a young man had is hand pretty badly mangled when he loaded from a flask and the flask did blow up. This took place in the 1840's and he was shooting a shotgun. Maybe the powder used was not as good as today and had that glowing ember left in the barrel.

 

[CrackStock]

Strider,

I have a question. Do you think that the fouling is causing the patched jag to stick when you run the rod too far or is there some structure that is catching the jag?

Try this, run a plain jag and a patched jag down the clean bore and "feel" if it is touching or catching on the backside of the touchhole liner. Is there a rough spot in the bore? If so, this is a different problem than is being discussed and should be addressed.

Also, try the AMOS cleaning formula. That is Alcohol and Murphey's Oil Soap. (Just made up the name -- maybe I should market it!) Slightly dampen the cleaning patches with a 50/50 mix -- you can adjust as needed.

As to getting the same depth of cleaning rod and limiting your liklihood of pushing too deeply, you could make a stop collar for your rod.

One way is to cut some plastic tubing to act as a sleeve over the top of your rod that begins at the handle and ends at your stopping place. This is not very adjustable, but can be made to work, It is also removeable

Another method involves some machine work.
Drill a hole through a piece of brass stock for the rod to barely pass through (should look like a donut or a thick washer), then make a thin cut into one side of it.(Like a lock washer but not separated) Now drill a hole that will allow you to thread a small bolt to reconnect the sides to tighten them. Thread one side and open the other side with a larger bit. Run the correct sized bolt into it to tighten. You can now tighten the collar to stop at the depth that you desire.

Now, if your gun has a patent breech, you might want to clean to the breech and also have a second rod which should have a small bore brush that fits inside the inner diameter of the inside breech. You can wrap a cleaning jag on this to clean inside periodically.

Just tossing out thinking material.

Hope that some of this helps.

YMHS,
CrackStock

 

[brushbuster]

when load developing and at the club shoots i found that a b/p bore brush wrapped with a cleaning patch wetted with stumpys moose milk or old thunder removes a lot of fouling and dosent get stuck as easy,thus followed with a windex or alcohol patch and dry patch removes the moisture and dries the barrel
this makes cleanup after shooting a lot easier i just run a heavily lubed bore butter or moose snot patch after shooting then give it a good scrubbing when i get home :thumbsup: :thumbsup: