Swabbing between shots

[user 34300]

Another reason (invalid IMHO) is safety. I recently started a thread on this aspect. I think the idea came from eh NMLRA rule book.

NMLRA Rule:
1110–SWABBING BETWEEN SHOTS–Swabbing between shots with a damp patch to eliminate the possibility of glowing embers igniting the next powder charge is strongly recommended.

 

[david w]

Another reason (invalid IMHO) is safety. I recently started a thread on this aspect. I think the idea came from eh NMLRA rule book.

NMLRA Rule:
1110–SWABBING BETWEEN SHOTS–Swabbing between shots with a damp patch to eliminate the possibility of glowing embers igniting the next powder charge is strongly recommended.

Glowing embers means fibers of patch material left behind and remain smoldering after a firing a shot. The best practice is, be sure to keep the muzzle away from your face, and don't charge directly from your horn. Always pour your powder into a measure, then pour it down the barrel.

 

[Christophero]

NMLRA Rule:
1110–SWABBING BETWEEN SHOTS–Swabbing between shots with a damp patch to eliminate the possibility of glowing embers igniting the next powder charge is strongly recommended.
[/QUOTE]

I have a question about this, if embers are in a deep breech well that holds powder but the patch swab cannot access wouldn't the embers still be a concern? Because of reading possible misfires from embers in the T/C manual 35 years ago I've been careful to keep the muzzle away from my pretty face when loading. Still am thoughtful about those useful fingers when ramming the ball home, too.

 

[longcruise]

NMLRA Rule:
1110–SWABBING BETWEEN SHOTS–Swabbing between shots with a damp patch to eliminate the possibility of glowing embers igniting the next powder charge is strongly recommended.

I have a question about this, if embers are in a deep breech well that holds powder but the patch swab cannot access wouldn't the embers still be a concern? Because of reading possible misfires from embers in the T/C manual 35 years ago I've been careful to keep the muzzle away from my pretty face when loading. Still am thoughtful about those useful fingers when ramming the ball home, too.

I think that's a very good question. I'll venture an answer that's more theoretical than supportable. I think the process of swabbing after the shot would do two things in this case. One, it would create a strong flow of air over any embers that would tend to cause them to burn faster and burn out the fuel that is glowing. Two, it simply takes more time to swab the barrel which gives any remaining embers time to burn out on there own.

I'm inclined to think the possibility of ignition of powder while pouring into the barrel is a real consideration even though rare. There seems to have been enough cases of powder containers blowing when powder has been poured directly from the container down the bore.

Just my thoughts on it. All of that said, I sometimes pour and load without swabbing.

 

[cannonball1]

My Son called the other day and ask what I was doing. I told him I had been out shooting the muzzleloader and was cleaning the gun. I SAID I HATE MUZZLELOADERS. He knew exactly what I meant. Been doing it since the early 70's and since, the unmentionable have sit in the safe, hardly every seeing daylight. Love the Art of Muzzleloading. Every gun is different. Believe me it is an art with different formulas for powder, bullets, cleaning, holding, shooting, and even the people you meet at a Black Powder Shoot come from complete opposites of the spectrum. Just got to the point I thought I knew everything about MLing with the long twist barrels and read about the fast twist barrels(unmentionables) -- bought one -- what a let-down. Then I read about the paper patch 18" twist barrels. The learning curve all over again. With the help from forum members it has been a lot easier. More shooting, but with black powder more and more and more cleaning. I hate muzzleloaders!

By now I am sure you realize everyone has their own formula for cleaning after or between shots. For me and the ball -- spit patch between shots and bar soap and hot water at home. With that soap and water I use a compressor and blow 60 lbs of air thru the barrel after taking the nipple out. after all of the water solution is out, the breech and barrel is bright. For the paper patch and target shooting. Fleener's method serves me best when shooting - - powder and wad on a dirty barrel then clean with damp patches followed up dry patches then the PP bullet. A couple of my guns are 40 years old and are as smooth as the day I purchased them. A testament of just taking the time to do a good job of cleaning whatever method you use. If you hate cleaning guns don't get a muzzleloader and that is what I've drilled into my kid's head to the point they just roll their eyes when I start ranting.

The modern gunners can go out and spend a couple of hundred dollars or more for ammo in an afternoon. And me - ten cents for a cap and thirty five cents for Swiss Powder, lead is free. 10 to 15 shots for the afternoon. What does that add up too? Then go home and clean the gun. Hours spent. can't beat that entertainment.

 

[DuncNZ]

In international competition Military Muskets are not permitted to be cleaned between shots , this is to keep things the way they were .

 

[dave951]

Another reason (invalid IMHO) is safety. I recently started a thread on this aspect. I think the idea came from eh NMLRA rule book.

NMLRA Rule:
1110–SWABBING BETWEEN SHOTS–Swabbing between shots with a damp patch to eliminate the possibility of glowing embers igniting the next powder charge is strongly recommended.

If this is a "rule" (emphasis mine) then it's either badly written or purposely that way to avoid a legal hassle after an accident.

I really think this whole thing boils down to PRB v conicals and individual guns. I do wipe between shots on my PRB guns simply because of better accuracy. I never wipe between shots with my minie ball guns because it's simply not needed either to maintain accuracy or to make loading easier.

 

[Buckskinquin]

I wipe between shots, and on a woods walk wipe often, while not every shot.
I don’t see anything to brag about if you go ten or twenty shots with out a wipe. Don’t see any thing to brag about if you wipe every shot, or every three or five shot string.
Powder, ball firmly seated, prime and shoot.
As long as you do those in order every thing else you do or don’t is the right way.

Shot at a station next to a BP shooter that seated his ball with a wetted patch on his jag. His reasoning, the powder being poured in shouldn’t cause any fouling to fall in the breech, any fouling taken down as he seats his ball ends up on top of the powder charge and as he pulls the wetted jag out from seating the prb will remove surface fouling. Claimed he hadn’t had a fouled barrel since starting this practice. I haven’t tried it yet. Any thoughts on this practice?

 

[johnfrommd]

Seems like he is over thinking it.

 

[Grenadier1758]

That method of using the wet patch on the jag when seating the ball is a method used by some so they don't have to wipe the bore between shots. It can work for that purpose. It doesn't always prevent the build up of the crusty fouling ring where the patched ball sits on the powder, but some shooters find that practice acceptable.

 

[hanshi]

I have posted more than once that I don't swab after each shot or even groups of shots. My method works for me and my rifle. I can only offer advice but I would not want anyone to think my way is the best way or the only way. I suggest that if it works for you continue on doing it your way.

I don't worry about embers in the breech because I load and fire so slowly. I have no fouling problems in calibers from .32 to .62. I received a bit of advice some time back, just haven't acted on it yet. That particular shooter takes a PRB with a very wet patch and fires it with a very small powder charge at the end of a shooting session. It apparently pre-cleans the barrel. I'm going to try this and see if it works for my shooting. I learn something new every day and THAT can only help.

 

[Erwan]

Trying to find if there's any consensus on barrel swabbing between shots. Using Real BP or Pyrodex Select. After every shot? After every ______ shots? Swab with what? T/C 13 or 17, alcohol, Ballistrol (Moose milk), etc.?

Can't really have consensus between swabbing or not, could be having one if everybody use the same weapon, the same powder, the same charge and the same ball, shortly : if all is really identical than you need swabbing between shots or not...
Just for example, I mostly use a Pedersoli Tryon, not a too bad rifle, and when I change one parameter or one other something change, so, when I'm using low cost powder (called here "poudre de chasse" or hunting powder), I have for obligation to swab between each shot for a good precision. But, with the same rifle, I'm using another powder like PNF2 or Swiss N°2, swabbing isn't necessary...
The groves and lands of this weapon aren't deep, and the twist is 1:21", so with long bullets of 500 grains and 60 grains of powder (Swiss N°2 or French PNF2), I need to swab each shot to preserve the real accuracy at 110 yards. In this way is no absolute rules...
For my cleaning patches I use a solvent BP mixture that I do by myself since more than fifty years..... when I need to clean between every shot...

 

[Buckskinquin]

I have posted more than once that I don't swab after each shot or even groups of shots. My method works for me and my rifle. I can only offer advice but I would not want anyone to think my way is the best way or the only way. I suggest that if it works for you continue on doing it your way.

I don't worry about embers in the breech because I load and fire so slowly. I have no fouling problems in calibers from .32 to .62. I received a bit of advice some time back, just haven't acted on it yet. That particular shooter takes a PRB with a very wet patch and fires it with a very small powder charge at the end of a shooting session. It apparently pre-cleans the barrel. I'm going to try this and see if it works for my shooting. I learn something new every day and THAT can only help.

Agreed, and the light charge would get you below the normal charge fouling ring. I’ll try it also.

 

[Stantheman86]

My Son called the other day and ask what I was doing. I told him I had been out shooting the muzzleloader and was cleaning the gun. I SAID I HATE MUZZLELOADERS. He knew exactly what I meant. Been doing it since the early 70's and since, the unmentionable have sit in the safe, hardly every seeing daylight. Love the Art of Muzzleloading. Every gun is different. Believe me it is an art with different formulas for powder, bullets, cleaning, holding, shooting, and even the people you meet at a Black Powder Shoot come from complete opposites of the spectrum. Just got to the point I thought I knew everything about MLing with the long twist barrels and read about the fast twist barrels(unmentionables) -- bought one -- what a let-down. Then I read about the paper patch 18" twist barrels. The learning curve all over again. With the help from forum members it has been a lot easier. More shooting, but with black powder more and more and more cleaning. I hate muzzleloaders!

By now I am sure you realize everyone has their own formula for cleaning after or between shots. For me and the ball -- spit patch between shots and bar soap and hot water at home. With that soap and water I use a compressor and blow 60 lbs of air thru the barrel after taking the nipple out. after all of the water solution is out, the breech and barrel is bright. For the paper patch and target shooting. Fleener's method serves me best when shooting - - powder and wad on a dirty barrel then clean with damp patches followed up dry patches then the PP bullet. A couple of my guns are 40 years old and are as smooth as the day I purchased them. A testament of just taking the time to do a good job of cleaning whatever method you use. If you hate cleaning guns don't get a muzzleloader and that is what I've drilled into my kid's head to the point they just roll their eyes when I start ranting.

The modern gunners can go out and spend a couple of hundred dollars or more for ammo in an afternoon. And me - ten cents for a cap and thirty five cents for Swiss Powder, lead is free. 10 to 15 shots for the afternoon. What does that add up too? Then go home and clean the gun. Hours spent. can't beat that entertainment.

40 rounds is a full afternoon of shooting with coffee breaks in between, with paper cartridges or patched round balls.

40 rounds isn't even 2 magazines for an AR . I try to explain to people that, after years of shooting bolt action rifles, etc that shooting my muzzleloaders is a more relaxing, almost zen-like experience because it's quality over quantity.

 

[johnfrommd]

18 rounds out of my 1858 Remington Beals '58 is about all my old arthritic hands can take in one sitting. Then I get to spend an hour cleaning it.

 

[Stantheman86]

A guy at the range was fascinated watching me shoot .575 lubed Minies through a Parker-Hale Enfield, I was just sitting at the bench using paper cartridges, and leisurely just target shooting. He couldn't believe I wasn't cleaning the pipe in between shots. I'm like, that is the whole reason the Minie ball exists, I can shoot these all day, no wiping the bore.

I get that guys use Minies sized .001 below their bore diameter to get the best accuracy and they have to wipe every few shots, but I'd rather shoot 4-6" groups at 100 yards (still within the standard) and just shoot and relax, sip on my big coffee, etc and not have to wipe any bores. It's very therapeutic.

 

[dave951]

I get that guys use Minies sized .001 below their bore diameter to get the best accuracy and they have to wipe every few shots

And you’d be dead wrong. I don’t wipe “every few shots” with my Parker Hale musket or musketoon

 

[Stantheman86]

And you’d be dead wrong. I don’t wipe “every few shots” with my Parker Hale musket or musketoon

You are claiming that you can fire 50 rounds sized .001 below your bore diameter without cleaning the bore one time?

 

[BP Addict]

Shot at a station next to a BP shooter that seated his ball with a wetted patch on his jag. His reasoning, the powder being poured in shouldn’t cause any fouling to fall in the breech, any fouling taken down as he seats his ball ends up on top of the powder charge and as he pulls the wetted jag out from seating the prb will remove surface fouling. Claimed he hadn’t had a fouled barrel since starting this practice. I haven’t tried it yet. Any thoughts on this practice?

I was thinking about getting into Precision Rifle Shooting; the kind they did at Creedmoor. Many resources I checked indicated that they would load powder and conical, then swab the bore AFTER it was loaded and before pulling the trigger. I haven't tried it on RB shooting.

However, most of the fouling remains in the breech where this method wouldn't reach. I mark my Stainless-Steel ramrod both empty and loaded with a Sharpie. After firing one shot, that mark is 1/4" above the muzzle on the second loading. This is on my 40 cal. Larger bores may not be affected as much. In fact, it seems the larger the bore, the less fouling I have.

Walt

 

[DuncNZ]

This Muzzle loading game is played on a field full of variations , I owned a very accurate Uberti Hawken rifle which did not like an oily bore and shot all over the place , so I put a patch on the jag when loading and thus wiped the bore twice , once as the patched ball went down and once as the jag came out . The rifle held various accuracy records after that .
For plinking and non competition shooting , If the weather is hot and dry I wipe with a lightly water misted patch before loading , If it is raining I don't wipe before loading . If I use Goex fffg I can wipe every 3rd shot , If I use Schutzen fffg I have to wipe before loading every time , no matter what the weather ,
If I am shooting in a timed competition I wipe as I seat the ball , this saves time and works well . I cut my wiping patches to suit the caliber and ensure they are all the same size , I use a spray pump of water to slightly dampen the patch .I try to keep everything the same .
All in all what I do depends on Firearm, rifle or smooth , weather , powder fineness and make , even powder batch , some like over powder felt wads some don't ,cap or flint , caliber and the number of shots I am going to fire .
I don't see it as a chore or a bore just part of the game , same with cleaning at the end of the day .