Swagged or cast round ball.

[ike1518]

What is the difference between a cast and a swagged round ball?

Thanks.

 

[David W.]

A cast RB is melted lead, poured into a mould, whereas a swaged RB is cold formed into a ball.

 

[ike1518]

A cast RB is melted lead, poured into a mould, whereas a swaged RB is cold formed into a ball.

Hmm? Why the different methods and is there an advantage of one kind over another? How do you know if a bullet is cast or swagged?

 

[nchawkeye]

Cast have a sprue, swaged don't...

I prefer cast as they seem to shoot better in my rifles...Haven't bought a ball in 25+ years...

 

[David W.]

A cast RB is melted lead, poured into a mould, whereas a swaged RB is cold formed into a ball.

Hmm? Why the different methods and is there an advantage of one kind over another? How do you know if a bullet is cast or swagged?

Some prefer to shoot swaged balls because they do not have a sprue. Swaged balls usually contain antimony, which makes them harder than pure lead balls. Some target shooters prefer them over cast.

Cast balls are usually made from pure lead and have a sprue. If the sprue is set off center, it can cause the ball to veer off path. Not a problem when the sprue is centered. Pure lead balls expand more, creating a bigger wound channel. Most hunters prefer this.

 

[necchi]

It's all about big machines and money. Swagged are made 100's at a time (in one stamping) then rolled and otherwise processed. That's the one on the right.

Cast, come out of a mold like above. The black plate acts like a funnel and a cutter. The extra lead on top is "cut" off by this "sprue" cutter leaving a flat section on the ball refered to as "the sprue". The one on the left.
In these later years I have prefered to cast my own. I can control the variables and quality. When loading cast, the "sprue" is placed forward every time to maintain the balance in rotation.

 

[ike1518]

flintlock62, nchawkeye, necchi,

Very educational is this forum!

Thanks!!!

 

[Zonie]

IMO, both kinds of roundballs work very well.

You've read and seen some casting equipment but it's hard to show a swaging machine.

As was stated with swaging the ball or bullet is formed under great pressure into a die cavity with the shape of the final form.

The lead is fed into the machine in wire form where it is sliced to the exact length while the die is closing on it.
These machines can run at incredible speeds with a new bullet or ball being kicked out each time the die opens for the next piece of lead wire.

Running at full speed the new bullet/balls seem to be flowing out of it in a constant stream.

Ideally speaking, the ball/bullet will be perfect without any internal flaws and they will be exactly the same.

That's where things get interesting.

I've measured and weighed several hundreds of swaged lead bullets and they all are within less than 1/2 thousandth of an inch of one another.
They also all weigh exactly the same to less than 1/10 of a grain.
The swaged roundballs I've measured and weighted on the other hand all seem to measure the same but the weights can be as much as 2 or more grains different.

I have no idea why this happens but it does with both Speer and Hornady balls.

 

[Bill Hall]

I've measured and weighed several hundreds of swaged lead bullets and they all are within less than 1/2 thousandth of an inch of one another.
They also all weigh exactly the same to less than 1/10 of a grain.
The swaged roundballs I've measured and weighted on the other hand all seem to measure the same but the weights can be as much as 2 or more grains different.

I have no idea why this happens but it does with both Speer and Hornady balls.

I think you made a typo there Zonie. Not trying to point out your mistake, I would really like to know which is which. Bill

 

[GreyWhiskers]

I've measured and weighed several hundreds of swaged lead bullets and they all are within less than 1/2 thousandth of an inch of one another.
They also all weigh exactly the same to less than 1/10 of a grain.
The swaged roundballs I've measured and weighted on the other hand all seem to measure the same but the weights can be as much as 2 or more grains different.

I think Zonie was writing about the differences in swaged roundballs and swaged bullets.

I weighed both Speer and Hornady swaged r/balls and found as much as 5.0 grains spread in a box of 100. My cast r/balls are within 2.0 grains or less.

Does it make much difference at short distances? Dunno. But casting is more fun. :grin: GW

 

[rabjr]

Playin with molten lead scares me, so my guns get a steady diet of Hornaday's. Don't know what the weight differances are but Deer sure don't seem to mind any...

 

[Vaino]

Casting uniform weight lead balls isn't easy and my hat's off to those who do it...I used to cast but now take the easy way out and buy swaged balls. I also have weighed many sample lots of both Speer and Hornady swaged balls and found that there are weight and dia. variations, but the many "head hit" squirrels are evidence that the variations aren't an accuracy deterrent. Cast lead balls if improperly cast can have internal voids which do affect accuracy, so weighing is an important step until the process is refined....Fred

 

[Dphar]

What is the difference between a cast and a swagged round ball?

Thanks.

Cast balls from a good mould are usually fairly round, swaged balls usually are not.

Dan

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Has anyone done slow motion photography to see if the sprue stays pointing forward for the whole flight?

 

[SgtSchutzen]

I`ve wondered the same thing Capper. Also if it makes a difference if they`re loaded spru up or down? I don`t shoot alot of cast balls, but when I do I load them spru up. Because that is the way I`ve always heard is correct. Just something I`ve wondered about. :hmm:

 

[Dphar]

Has anyone done slow motion photography to see if the sprue stays pointing forward for the whole flight?

In a rifle it does.
In a smoothbore its very unlikely since they rotate randomly.

Photography is not needed. The spin of rifling stabilizes the ball, the whole point of spin stabilizing the projectile.

Dan

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Wouldn't the ball have to be perfectly round? If the sprue moved offline even a little bit it's going to go out of balance.

I would think a swaged ball has a better chance of flying true.

 

[Dphar]

Wouldn't the ball have to be perfectly round? If the sprue moved offline even a little bit it's going to go out of balance.

I would think a swaged ball has a better chance of flying true.

If you measure and weigh some swaged balls they often have a significant belt around them that is hard to see and even harder to load the same way from shot to shot. They are tumbled after swaging it would appear to "smooth" them. I am amazed they shoot as well as they do.

Its easier to assure the sprue is in the proper position if loaded UP so common practice is to do so.
If the sprue is a concern then put them in a vibratory case tumbler for a couple of hours and the sprues well largely disappear and they will then look like swaged balls only they will be rounder if the mould is any good.


Dan

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Ok, thanks.

I didn't want to get into casting if it wasn't better. I know it saves money, but I want the most accurate.

 

[Rhett Griffith]

I cast roundballs in the following diameters: .311, .375, .440, .454, .490, .495, .530 plus various centerfire bullets. (I get most of my lead free from a friend who works in a tire shop and also has access to scrap plumbing lead) I have found that cast roundballs give excellent accuracy and mine have proven quite acceptable even unsorted. I now have a digital scale that will weigh up to 1200 grains, so I intend to run a few tests with weight-sorted balls in the near future to see what difference it makes.

I also sometimes shoot swaged bullets as friends and family often give them to me for Christmas, etc. I cannot complain about the performance of these projectiles either, but most of my shooting so far has been informal target shooting and hunting. Can't really make a statement comparing the relative accuracy of either one.

I too have always wondered whether the sprue of a cast roundball remains pointing forward during its flight. I believe that it most likely does due to the ball rotating around the axis along which the sprue lies, but my physics knowledge is limited to one class in high school that was taught by the football coach! :wink:

Rhett