Swagged or cast round ball.

[Pete Gaimari]

That doesn't sound good.

I have a good source for wheel weights. Is that lead ok?

 

[R.M.]

I cast for everything I shoot, except for the new .32 I got, so I bought some Hornady swagged balls. You know, for such a small ball, they miked at least .004" if not .005" out of round. That's a lot for such a little ball. I wasn't impressed.

 

[Dphar]

Interesting experiment.

In the one shot that you can see the ball clearly. The sprue looks to have turned to the side, and it's early in it's flight. Did it continue to turn?

Interesting about the Swiss powder too. Does it get it's powder from a more complete burning than Goex?

Better charcoal.
They use charcoal that is not available in the US.
They also use slightly more potassium nitrate. But mostly its the charcoal.
Dan

I probably worded that wrong. I did study up on Swiss before plunking down my money. I knew about the Alder charcoal and how they process it. Also about the ratio of potassium nitrate. What I wasn't clear on was how that gave it more power. The pictures clearly show how it burns faster and more complete than Goex. I would like to see some pictures of Goex Express to see how it burns.

Charcoal quality is critical. I am told by an expert in the field that the reason C&H stopped making Diamond Grain was that they lost the supply of charcoal which was cut at a certain time of the year in Spain (IIRC it was a Dogwood species). Without the right wood they could not make the powder.
The higher percentage of potassium nitrate gives a little more oxygen.
And yes the charcoal is THAT important.
Almost any charcoal will make BP but properly prepared charcoal from the proper wood makes the difference between a premium powder and a powder good for blasting rocks.
Once the right ingredients are found it requires proper milling and pressing and breaking and drying.
Sporting powders like the old premium powders of the late 19th century are milled significantly longer the finer particle size makes the charcoal burn faster since the finer particles burn easier and the three ingredients are mixed together better by the longer mill time.
Careful pressing gives a uniform specific gravity.
All these things make a powder that makes better velocity, burns cleaner and is more consistent from lot to lot.

It is possible to make pretty good powder with a less desirable charcoal. But it will never fully equal the powder made with the better charcoal.
Dan

 

[David W.]

That doesn't sound good.

I have a good source for wheel weights. Is that lead ok?

Wheel weights contain antimony and tin. They will be much harder than pure lead. At times, you can find pure lead at a salvage yard.

I have found too, that some ball moulds are not so round. It also makes a difference whether one use an aluminum or steel mould. Steel moulds hold their temprature better than alunimum and usually cast truer balls. Some may disagree with that, but that is the observations I have made over the years. The best I have ever used are the RCBS moulds. Lyman also makes very good steel moulds.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Wouldn't the harder balls from wheel weights be better for target shooting? No concern for expansion.

 

[CrackStock]

The Bevel Brothers did a study of sprue placement at various locations and found that there was not as significant an effect as we generally thought. There was a bit of an effect, but not much.

I found that when I began casting my own, that I shot a lot more and also took control of the balls that I was shooting. The amount of shooting; the care of loading and the attention to detail in terms of weight and diameter across the balls seemed to increase accuracy.

Whether this improvement was due to increased desire on my part, greater attention to my shooting or an improvement in the projectile would be arguable. The improvement downrange was fact.

For me, it is all cast except for my .36s Those are Hornady .350s which seem to have very good quality and I do not bother to try casting a reliable ball that size.

YMHS,
CrackStock

 

[necchi]

Wouldn't the harder balls from wheel weights be better for target shooting? No concern for expansion.

Not really, the soft lead will comform easier to the rifling.
The object of proper patch is too "impart" the rifling to the ball and hence give better controlled spin. Hard lead can "skip" the rifling under heavy charges.
Lead hardness is another constant under endless contention. Top shooters use soft lead.(period), :idunno:

 

[necchi]

I found that when I began casting my own, that I shot a lot more and also took control of the balls that I was shooting. The amount of shooting; the care of loading and the attention to detail in terms of weight and diameter across the balls seemed to increase accuracy.

Whether this improvement was due to increased desire on my part, greater attention to my shooting or an improvement in the projectile would be arguable. The improvement downrange was fact.

Good point !
I really beleive that's the ticket, paying full attention to the details, just as in any shooting sport, it consistancy AND detail that ultimatly leads to accuracy and where many new to the sport of ML fail. They just want it to shoot like modern guns and don't want to do any of the "extra" work accuracy entails. :thumbsup:

 

[David W.]

Wouldn't the harder balls from wheel weights be better for target shooting? No concern for expansion.

I should have written my post better. Wheel weights are fine for target. But, If I am going to hunt, I try to make things as consistant as possible. Wheel weight balls will weigh a little less and will also not shrink as much. if I were to use wheel weights, I would have to change to a thinner patch because my patch/ball combination is as tight as it needs to be.
As far as being better, I don't think so. They will not be any worse accuracy wise, however.

 

[necchi]

Wheel weight balls will weigh a little less and will also not shrink as much.

Shrink ?
When does Pure Lead shrink beyond the .00005 of an inch from just being hot from the mold vrs cooled to ambient temp.?

Does it somehow change shape after being dropped from the mold, or does it take time, ya know, like take a couple days too cure?

Any shrinkage is going to be beyond notice of anyone outside of a lab using labritory grade tools.

 

[Bill Hall]

Wouldn't the harder balls from wheel weights be better for target shooting? No concern for expansion.

Not really, the soft lead will comform easier to the rifling.
The object of proper patch is too "impart" the rifling to the ball and hence give better controlled spin. Hard lead can "skip" the rifling under heavy charges.
Lead hardness is another constant under endless contention. Top shooters use soft lead.(period), :idunno:

I second what Necchi says. Plus, soft lead tends to "obturate" ( I hope I used that word corrctly) better than harder lead, causing the ball to expand into the rifling and creating a tighter fit. Hard lead tends to stay the same shape, and therefore has more potential for skipping the rifling.

I've actually seen this happen with a gun I built. Using hard balls made it shoot just like a smoothbore, maybe even worse. Going back to soft lead tightened the group from about 10" to about 1-1/2" at 50 yards. Bill

 

[tg]

Generally speaking the average shooter/hunter will not notice any difference, much like most peoples experience with priming with 3f and a host of other little things that that for the most part don't matter for most folks but the reality of such things is good to know just to have a more complete understanding as to how it all works IMHO, and a way to deal with those who always say "ya gotta have/do this or that or it won't work"

 

[MikeChapin]

Wouldn't the harder balls from wheel weights be better for target shooting? No concern for expansion.

Not really. The two types just shoot a little different from one another. The harder lead is a little tougher to load because the balls don't squish into the patch and rifling as easily as the softer balls. The loads worked up using soft lead don't work as well with the harder lead. Normally you have to find a little different load combo for the harder stuff. After that they shoot as well as the soft stuff if they want to shoot in the barrel at all.

The Bevel Brothers did an article about this a couple of years ago and found pretty much the same thing.

If you want to find soft lead at the salvage yard, look for roof flashing, old plumbing pipe, xray room lead and cable sheathing. All of that stuff is very close to being pure lead.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

My only easy option is wheel weights, because I have a friend here with an auto repair/tire shop.
I live in a town with a pop of 2000. Not a lot of options here.

I'm doing this to be more consistent in target shooting. Not to save money. I'll just buy pure lead.

If I buy lead. Will I still save some money over buying swaged balls?

 

[Rogue River]

You will get Approx. 30 balls (.530) per pound of lead! Around here lead go's for $1.00/$1.50 per pound, I would say yes! :hmm:

 

[necchi]

A box of .50 cal ball is about 3#, .54--about 3.5#.
So, a box of ball at 12$-- 12 X 3 = 36

Lee mold--$20
9# at $1 per pound = 300 ball for $29

$6 savings right there or you can cast 372 ball for the $36.
Anyways, the math work in your favor.
Soft lead is down a bit at the scrap yards, IIRC current .72 per #
It's a good bet to get 20-50-100# of lead. Through the years I've acquired Lyman steel molds and buy lead in the 100# range. I'm down to about 30-40# of lead now and have an eye out for more.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

You will get Approx. 30 balls (.530) per pound of lead! Around here lead go's for $1.00/$1.50 per pound, I would say yes! :hmm:

That is a savings. About 1/3 of buying swaged.

Not counting my labor. Which I never do.

If I wasn't casting, id be here talking about it. :grin:

 

[Bill Hall]

But after that intial use, you've paid for the mold and you can throw that expense out of the equation. Now look how cheap those balls are to cast.

You can also invest in a $20 digital scale, so you can weigh your bullets. Even if you throw half of the balls back into the pot, you come out way ahead and have perfect balls to boot. You never need to worry about a flyer being due to a bad ball, so you can dismiss that variable and focus on other factors. Bill

 

[Joel/Calgary]

My only easy option is wheel weights, because I have a friend here with an auto repair/tire shop.
I live in a town with a pop of 2000. Not a lot of options here.

Separate the stick-on wheel weights from the clip-on ones. The stick-on ones are reported to be quite soft & close to pure lead. The clip-on ones are the higher-alloyed lead.

Regards,
Joel