Swedish guns

[Stophel]

Before I take the "straight rifling" thread any further off course...

Hey, Arilar, I have this photo from Hermann-Historica several years ago of a rifle I assume to be Swedish. It is by Geller of Frisberg. "Geller" and "Frisberg" certainly seem to be Scandinavian names, and the gun itself also has the Scandinavian look. (unfortunately, there are no photos of the cheekside). Does this look like a Swedish gun to you?

By the way, this is the translation of the caption:

Flintlock rifle, Frisberg, about 1770. Octagon, going-over-to round, rifled barrel in Caliber 17.5mm with "aufgeloetetem" (...I'll have to look that up...probably "onset" or something like that) brass front sight (korn). On the percussion adapted lock the signature "Geller a Frisberg". Full stock in French style (meaning only that it is straight-wristed. If it were step-wristed, they might say something like "Deutscher Schaft"), with carved "Beschlageinfassung" (which I take to mean the surrounding of the hardware), butt box with lid and "angedeuteter" ("clear"?, "distinctive"?) cheek, the nose(cap) missing. Brass furniture. Length 114.5 cm.

 

[Herz_aus_Stahl]

For me it looks like a prussian Jägerbüchse before 1796.

Btw where is "Frisberg"? I cant find a city with that name, sounds more like the name of a person.

 

[arilar]

If it hadnt been for that "germanic" triggerguard I suppose much of the rest of it as well could have been Swedish. Many influences from continent to Sweden at that time. Since several hundreds of years from German area and during last part of 1700s from France as well.
Geller (father and son) worked ca. 1720 and 1750 in Sachsen (Saxony), Germany.
I will present a Swedish rifle at "General Muzzleloading"
Guess Herz nailed this one.
Regards,
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

I'm going with Danish. I have been searching diligently for SOMEWHERE named Frisberg. My searches bring up LOTS of Scandinavian people named "Frisberg", but so far, only an oblique reference to a city named "Frisberg", but with no actual location. There is an island named "Frisberg" (near another island named "Lameland"), but the location of that I cannot find either.

The triggerguard is obviously derived from the standard North German form, BUT, it is extraordinarily rare to find a German guard like this with the little "curl", or "return" behind the trigger like this one does. I have photos of another Danish gun with a triggerguard similarly constructed (though much larger). Danish, yeah, that's what I'm goin' with....

Prussian military rifles (and Prussian rifles in general) will be step-wristed and have the "open bow" triggerguard. It happens that I also have a photo from the same auction of a late 18th century Prussian military rifle of this familiar form.

The use of the word/letter "a" is a French affectation in place of "in" or "at". It will always signify the location. "Pistor a Kassel", "Haueisen a Schwarzburg", "Laurent a Paris" etc.

 

[arilar]

The triggerguard is obviously derived from the standard North German form, BUT, it is extraordinarily rare to find a German guard like this with the little "curl", or "return" behind the trigger like this one does.
Prussian military rifles (and Prussian rifles in general) will be step-wristed and have the "open bow" triggerguard.
The use of the word/letter "a" is a French affectation in place of "in" or "at". It will always signify the location. "Pistor a Kassel", "Haueisen a Schwarzburg", "Laurent a Paris" etc.

Well, well... I didnt even react on that detail on triggerguard :haha:

Danish..... :hmm: . The "a" in that sense is not used in the Swedish language, I dont know about danish. Could the place Frisberg has been misspelled and be something like Friesberg, Freisberg, Frisenberg et.c.?
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[Claude Mathis]

...but so far, only an oblique reference to a city named "Frisberg", but with no actual location. There is an island named "Frisberg" (near another island named "Lameland"), but the location of that I cannot find either.

They're in the Baltic Sea, but I don't have a map handy to give more detail.

 

[Stophel]

I'll not rest until I find Frisberg!!!

It could easily be Baltic or even...Russian!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Isn't Freisland part of current Holland? Could Frisberg be a town in Freisland?

 

[Claude Mathis]

Here's the referrence to the wo islands, but narrowing down the location of the islands any more than "the Baltic" is tough.

The ships, under the Andreevsky flag (ensign of Imperial Russian Navy), put to sea themselves seeking out enemies. On 26 July, 1720, the Russian galley fleet (61 galleys in power) commanded by Ansheff-General[url] M.M.Golytsin[/url] found out an anchored Swedish squadron (one battleship, four frigates, three galleys, a shnyava, a galliot, three skerriesboats and a brigantine) between the islands Lameland and Frisberg. Golytsin took a decision to attack the enemy, but the wind becoming stronger hampered him. On 27 July, when the weather came to be better, the Russian ships moved to Grengham Island where "there was a good place for galleys". As soon as the ones had approached the island, the Swedish ships weighed anchors and, setting sail, went into the strait too. Seeing that the Swedish fleet occupied a better position, Golytsin commanded to retreat.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

I believe Friesland is in extreme northern Germany. At least, there was a beer from there I enjoyed when I lived in Nurnberg in 1979-80. Can't remember the name of the beer at themoment, but I distinctly remember asking where Friesland was, and the german man told me the above.

 

[arilar]

Funny....rather big portions of northern Germany was at that time (1720) Swedish territory and several "Swedish" wellknown master Gunmakers were working in that region during 1700s..... :hmm:
Chris....maybe your suspicions of origin of the rifle may be right :rotf:
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[Claude Mathis]

I believe Friesland is in extreme northern Germany.

Netherlands, Northeast of Holland.
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/graphics/Freisland.jpg[/url]

 

[hawkeye1755]

I believe Friesland is in extreme northern Germany.

Yes , that's where i life .North Friesland.But there are 3 Frieslands.North Friesland (near Danemark),East Friesland(around The City of Bremen) and the Friesland in Holland.

:hatsoff:

 

[hawkeye1755]

I'll not rest until I find Frisberg!!!

It could easily be Baltic or even...Russian!

I think Frisberg is a danish surname.And as Arilar said:Geller (father and son) worked ca. 1720 and 1750 in Sachsen (Saxony), Germany.
But the percussion lock is not from 1770.Don't forget this on your thoughts.When is this percussion lock made?We don't know.
When we say the lock is made 1815-1820 that's 45-50 years difference between the gunstock and the lock.
:hatsoff:

 

[arilar]

I'll not rest until I find Frisberg!!!

It could easily be Baltic or even...Russian!

But the percussion lock is not from 1770.Don't forget this on your thoughts.When is this percussion lock made?We don't know.

I suppose its a converted lock from flint to percussion :thumbsup:
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Gentlemen: I found a town named Freiburg, in Germany, at the mouth of he Elbe river, downstream( NW) of Hamburg. The river divides Denmark from Germany. Could this possibly be the name you are seeking? There is also a Freyburg, in what used to be East Germany. it is just north of a slightly larger town, named Naumburg. Could that also be the town? I also find a " Flesberg " Norway, just west of Oslo. Can this be the town involved?

 

[TFoley]

'Aufgeloeteten' = soft-soldered.

tac

 

[Trond]

I positivly know that the above mentioned rifle no way was made at Flesberg, Nummedal, Norway. This is a little place in the middle of nowhere and has never had a recorded gunsmith!

I do, however, have a couple of rifles with this triggerguard. The first one is a wheel lock signed a gunsmith with a German name in Praha:

The other one a really beautiful, early flintlock rifle from a German gunsmith in Türingen (I believe it was):

I am on a prolonged vacation so I couldn't take any better pics. I am sorry about the quality of these. Also, I'm sorry not remembering the names of the gunsmiths.

Anyhow, I've never seen this triggerguard design made by anything but German gunsmiths - on the other hand, I've only collected thing like these for some 45 years...

Trond

 

[Stophel]

If the name on the lockplate were something like "Maenz in Braunschweig", I wouldn't have thought anything more about it being German, but it says "Geller a Frisberg". The Scandinavian names, both of the maker and the location do point me to somewhere in Scandinavia. I now think somewhere in Denmark is the most likely. Shumway published photos several years ago of a really pretty Danish rifle with this general form of triggerguard...the German "strap" triggerguard with the addition of the "return" behind the trigger, so this type of guard is certainly not out of the question for a Scandinavian rifle.

 

[arilar]

The Scandinavian names, both of the maker and the location do point me to somewhere in Scandinavia. I now think somewhere in Denmark is the most likely. Shumway published photos several years ago of a really pretty Danish rifle with this general form of triggerguard...the German "strap" triggerguard with the addition of the "return" behind the trigger, so this type of guard is certainly not out of the question for a Scandinavian rifle.

Here are some good Swedish makers with trigger-guard somewhat similar to Gellers (very embarrasing :redface: ). Unfortunately Geller is not found in Sweden. Denmark seems highly possible!
The Swedish makers are as follow:
J.M.Metzger, Gerhardt, Tellberg, Grecke, Reichardt, G. Metzger, Skiölman, and Utterberg.

Regards,
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup: