SxS pedersoli shotgun

[colt100]

I have a 12 ga SxS shotgun bought from Cabelas about 2-3 years ago. I have been using it for hunting grouse/ducks, and this year turkeys and phesants.

Last year, I noticed that the shot gun was shooting to different points of impact. The left barrel was shooting just to the left of the point of aim, the right was high and to the right of POA. I would have to aim off of a grouse to make sure that the pattern was centered on the bird. The center of the patterns are about 6-12 inches off POA.

Is there anything that can be done to get the POI to the POA? If not, oh well, but if I get the shotgun shooting where I point it, I would be much happier.

This condition did not stop me from shooting some ducks with it but I did miss a few grouse on the ground last year :redface: (yea I know :nono: but both me and my wife love grouse and on the ground is sometimes the only way i get them :redface: )

 

[paulvallandigham]

Is the gun provided with choke, or screw-in chokes? If not, and its cylinder bore, you can file the muzzle to change the POI for each barrel. to bring them to POA. If the left barrel is shooting low, then file the bottom edge to bring it up to POA. If its shooting to the Left of POA then file both the side and bottom to bring it to POA. File at 7:30 on the barrel looking from the rear of the gun. If you are looking down at the muzzles, then file at 4:30 to get the same effect. This is trial and error filing, that is done at the range where you can pattern test the gun as you file.

Do one barrel at a time. There is a learning curve, if you are not used to draw filing metal. Take your time, and don't take off too much metal before checking to see what is happening with the POI as a result of your work.

The right barrel that is shooting right, and high, needs to have metal taken off the barrel at 2 o'clock to bring it down and back to POA. If you are looking at the muzzle as you would be filing it, you are working on the LEFT barrel at 10 O'clock. Got it?

TIP: If you set paper out at 10 feet, you will shoot ragged holes, but they will hit off the point of aim just as your longer range patterns do. The holes will just be smaller, and not use up so much paper per shot! Get the two barrels so that they are taking out the center of your aiming point. Then move the target back to 30 feet, and check to see if the patterns are still hitting POA, or you need to file some more. At 10 yard, you will have about a 12 inch pattern, much smaller than the larger patterns at 25, 35, and 40 yards. I find its easier to see the center of the pattern at these close ranges while I am filing, so that I can get where I need to go faster in adjusting the POI. Once you get close, then you take the target back to your normal patterning distance, and test the barrels at those ranges. ALWAYS DO THIS OFF A REST, so you eliminate human error in tuning the barrels. It can be a sitting, or standing rest. Just eliminate your own errors, and let the gun speak for itself.


TIP #2: Before doing any of this, I would adjust my powder charges up or down to see if I can't get the pattern closer to POA that way. Its not uncommon for individual barrels to require separate powder/shot combinations to get good patterns out of a DB shotgun. The first barrel you habitually fire is the one you want to be closest to the POA. That is going to have the tightest pattern when you slap the trigger. The second barrel will only be fired when you miss your first target, or if two birds rise at the same time. Your pattern will be more open, and the distance to target greater for the second shot. That barrel can be a little off, and still kill birds if the load, and choice of shot is right.

Forget about speed reloading shotguns. It can be done, but always produces an inferior load to shoot. Think of BP shotgun shooting, as taking your reloading tools into the field with you. Do it right, and you will get great results. There should be no rush to reloading a shotgun. Take that time to enjoy the smells, the scenery, to relax your eyes, and ears from straining to see and hear birds, and just enjoying that you had an opportunity to burn powder at a game bird. If you brought down the bird, congratulations to you. All birds taken with black powder guns are trophies.

 

[colt100]

It is one with screw in choke tubes

 

[paulvallandigham]

The first thing you have to check is to see that you have the choke tubes turned in fully. Any change can move the pattern away from POA. And, the next thing is to check the tubes in each barrel. Some times the tubes are set for one barrel and not the other.

Only when you are sure that the choke tubes are not affecting where the pattern impacts, or " centers" do you begin thinking about changing anything about the barrels, including filing on the muzzle. In fact, I would go so far as to buy new choke tubes to see if that makes any difference.

The muzzles can still be filed, but it has to be done with the tubes in place. The upside of that is that you will always know when the tube is screwed back into it proper position, after you remove them to clean them, and to clean the residue out of the threads, along with the remainder of the barrel. The only downside is that with choke tubes, the amount of filing is increased, but the results will be just as worth while.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Paul is right, He suggested it to me and my peder and all is fine now.
TIP, grasp the tubes high up to catch the file if you slide it off the muzzles :thumbsup:

 

[colt100]

So you just file the choke tubes and leave the barrel alone?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Not sure about that as mine is cylinder barrelled Sir.

 

[paulvallandigham]

No. You file the barrels with the choke tubes in place, so that you are filing both of them at the same time. You are not going to be taking off that much metal to move the patterns.

What filing the muzzle does is allow the muzzle to " release " the shot column and wads pushing it sooner on the short side, which will push the load away from that low side. To move a pattern UP and RIGHT, you file down the lower left side of the muzzle, just enough to move the pattern. If you think of the muzzle of the barrel, as you look at it, as if it were a dial clock face, with numbers 1 through 12, You file at 4:30 o'clock( of the clock) to move the pattern UP and RIGHT.

On a Double Barreled gun, this can get a bit tricky, if you have barrels that cross pattern, that is, the Left pattern prints too far right, or crosses over the POA, and the right Barrel shoots patterns that are too far left, crossing over the POA. In that case, you have to use a half round file to remove metal from the inside edges of the barrels to spread the patterns back to center. That is not normally the problem you have with a s x s double barreled shotgun, however, and you will only rarely see an old DB shotgun that was filed this way.Its much more common for barrels to shoot away from the center, and your POA.

 

[fatman]

Paul, I have been reading your post and I need to know where the filing is done. Is it inside the bore or the front edge of the bores.I think you mean on the outside on the front edge.It would kind of shorten the area of the bore where you would be filing compared to the rest of the surface of the bore. If you looked at an exagerated profile of the front of the barrel would it look like this / if you were filing the lower portion of the barrel? My left barrel shoots low left while the right is right on.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The muzzle is the outer edge or end of the barrel, NO? That is where you file. You are draw filing, which requires you to lay the flat side of the file on the piece your are filing, and grasp the file with both hands, palms down. YOu pusht the file down and away from you, pick it up, move it back to the start position, place it down flat again, and repeat the motion. Some filers while turn the file at a 45 degree angle to give a sweeping cut, not much different than what a snow plow achieves with the blade turned slightly sideways. This allows the cut metal to raise and roll up between the teeth of the file, before pouring out the sides of the file. File a couple of strokes, clean the teeth with a file card, or brass bristle brush, then chalk it again, and repeat. To be able to see that your strokes are flat, turn the work in the vise every so often, so that your filing makes new " lines" across the previously filed surface.

You are filing the OUTSIDE of the muzzle, which appears FLAT across when first seen. Often it is not, and more often, its not square to the bore. That means, the muzzle is not filed or sawed at a 90 degree angle to the bore of the barrel. You are not filing the sides of the muzzle. You are trying to change how the load of shot and wads is released at the muzzle to move the pattern in one direction or another. If a muzzle is uneven( what you are trying to do) the part of the circle of the bore that lets the shot and wads go first will also then allow gases to push out in that spot before gases can push out of the rest of the muzzle. That push of gas is what moves the shot pattern away from that side of the muzzle.

It does not take much removal of steel at the muzzle to move the pattern several inches down range. I would be surprised if you removed more than a few thousandths of an inch.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

It may not be necessary to modify the gun to correct point of impact. You didn't mention the load you are using but that will affect point of impact. Recoil forces the right barrel up and to the right, left barrel up and left. How much the recoil displaces the pattern depends on how quickly the shot gets out of the barrel. The barrels are aligned to converge and compensate for the recoil but only within a certain range of loads. Most guns are set up for equal volume loads and loading more shot or less powder will cause exactly the problem you describe. Try increasing the powder and or reducing the shot load. By increasing the velocity you'll get the shot out of the barrel more quickly and thus reduce the effect of the left and right swing of recoil.

 

[slowpokebr549]

Ooookay, so if my single barrel patterns just a little low, no matter how I load it,I can remove a few thousands of material from the 6 o clock(lower portion) of the muzzle to raise POI. Have I got that right?I have always had to aim at turkeys by covering the head with the barrel. I would like it to shoot more of a 6 oclock hold, i.e. just a little high.Geez I learn something every time I get on here. Please advise me here, fine file, single cut mill bastard or what. And, do you finish polish with wet grit? Could I mark the high point by using blueing or black marker like grinding valves?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes, file from the lower portion of the muzzle to move the pattern up. Use a fine toothed file, but a draw file, not a cross cut file. Go ahead and mark the area to be filed with some kind of dye or marker. It helps highlight your filing strokes. Polish with whatever you want. A draw file should leave a pretty smooth finish, so you don't have a lot of polishing to do. Once the pattern is hitting where you want it to go, then touch up that area with some cold blue, or browning solution to match the existing finish. If its a factory Dark Blue finish, then heat the muzzle up with a propane torch and apply the cold blue to the metal when its hot. Apply several coats, and let it sizzle. Cool under your water tap, while you use a rough rag to rub off any residue. Then oil the area and leave it to " rest " for a day or so. I like to heat the barrel back up and then spray it with WD40, and let it hang and cool in the garage. The oil will burn a bit, and help match the Blue/black finish of the factory. Mostly, heating the steel up again helps open pores so that the oil gets down into the pores with the bluing solution to give an even finish color.

 

[slowpokebr549]

Dang, I have tried everything I could think of to shift poi. I was just happy it was centered. It also shoots round ball a little low unless loaded light. Maybe this little trick will rectify that situation as well.Sadly I only have cross cut files. I will have to invest in a draw file and some cold blue.

 

[fatman]

Thanks Paul,
I now have work to do on my Ped SxS.

 

[ZUG]

I have some input on this and before you file on the barrels ask yourself this question -- " Did I put on a few extra pounds"? "Is my face any fatter that it was a few years ago"? If the answer is yes than your POI change maybe from the change of position of your cheek / eye on the stock. Something to think about!

 

[slowpokebr549]

A valid point, touchy subject,but valid. However, this gun has always shot low and I am at the same weight as I was eight years ago when I bought it.

 

[DanChamberlain]

Yes, but if you are feeding it European powder, the gun may have put on weight.

Dan

 

[slowpokebr549]

Too much swiss "cheese" perhaps,3f cheese.