T/C 1 in 66 twist

[Finnwolf]

Just curious - did T/C always mark their barrels "1 in 66 Roundball Twist"? I had a PA Hunter for years that I bought to replace a 1 in 48 hawken 'cause I wanted to tighten up my groups at longer ranges out to 100 yards.
I was never able to do any better with the PA Hunter than I did with the 1 in 48 Hawken. Then one day I saw a T/C hawken in a shop with the above marking on the barrel. My PA Hunter did not have the 1 in 66 marking on the barrel and it's got me wondering if the PA Hunter I had was really a 1 in 66 or if it was a 1 in 48.
Anyone know for sure?

 

[BrownBear]

I can't say about the twist in a PA hunter. You may just have to measure it yourself.

But one of my hunting pards picked up an accessory RB barrel (though a capper) right from TC, and it's marked just as you say. It's also about 4" longer than the standard barrel on his Hawken, if I recall correctly.

I do know this for sure: You don't EVEN want to challenge this guy to a shooting match. At any range. It's super accurate, and he's got the skills to make the most of it.

 

[shootemup]

It's super accurate, and he's got the skills to make the most of it.

I can sure agree with that, I love my T/C roundball barrel.

As to the original question, I couldn't say. I always thought the PA Hunter came with a 1:66 twist, but never owned one so don't know for sure. They're good barrels, though.

:hatsoff:
Spot

 

[bubba15301]

t/c pa hunter= 1-66 twist

 

[Robert58]

Per T/C Twist Chart

\\\\ PENNSYLVANIA

50(DEEP BUTTON) 28 & 21 Oct 1:48 RH
50(CUT) 1:48 RH
50(DEEP BUTTON) 1:66 RH

\\\\ PENNSYLVANIA MATCH HUNTER

50(CUT) 1:66 RH

I have never seen a T/C Roundball Barrel with 1:66" Twist that was not marked.

Robert

 

[Finnwolf]

Thanks Robert, your answer makes me feel even more like I may have been sold a 1 in 48. I bought the PA Hunter the year it came out as soon as I'd heard about it. There were none on the shelf in my area, so I ordered one through a local dealer. I wanted the 1 in 66 twist but it's very possible that the dealer got me a 1 in 48 by mistake. I never knew the PA Hunter came in anything BUT 1 in 66.
If T/C always marked their barrel 1 in 66 then I'll know for sure. My barrel had no such markings.

 

[hanshi]

1-48" twist is not really all that fast and normally shoot well with prb. Just thinking out loud, here, but I'd think the 1-48" would do as well or better at long range as 1-66".

 

[Finnwolf]

It's generally recognized that a 1 in 60 to 1 in 70 twist with deeper grooves is more accurate for a prb load and the faster twist (around 1 in 30")shallow groove barrels work better for conicals.
1 in 48 is a compromize twist. T/C settled on it in an effort to offer 1 twist to all shooters but they stuck with the shallow grooves to cater to conical shooters because there are far more of them than prb shooters.

 

[hanshi]

I agree with you on deeper grooves being better for prb and 1-30" being a fast twist for prb. 1-48", especially in small to medium calibers, is best described as a medium twist. Such twists weren't rare in the old days and are apparently found in some original rifles. That being said, I personally prefer a slower (than 1-48") twist in my calibers over .40. My most accurate .45 barrel has gain twist rifling that becomes much faster than 1-48" at the muzzle.

 

[Leatherbark]

I bought a Pennsylvania Hunter when they came out. I wanted a good quality round ball shooter..........Ads claimed it was 1/66 cut rifled...........It does have deep cut rifling although it is not marked 1/66.
I never could get that gun to shoot better than a regular TC 1/48. If fact all of my buddies CVA guns would shoot rings around it.

I still have that barrel. I recenlty sold it to a freind telling him about the problem and told him if he was not satisfied to return it...........He did.

One of these days I'll have it relined to maybe a 45 caliber or bored to a .54 smoothbore.

I thought I was the only person in the world who had a problem Pennsylvania Hunter........................Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

Sometimes, a barrel is breeched at the wrong end, and never shoots to its potential. Turn it around and re-breech the barrel and see what happens. I know that sounds goofy, but I first learned that years ago from and old gun maker, and then heard it again more than 20 years ago from another maker. I told him I had heard that before but thought it was an old wives tale. He assured me there is truth to it, because cutting barrels in one direction does something with the " grain " of the metal, and it shoots best only in one direction.

I think the current trend to stress relieve barrels with Cryogenic treatments probably gets rid of the problem, in more modern made barrels, because I have not heard makers expressing concern about which end is breeched in recent years. A CVA barrel, of course, probably was made back before they began stress relieving barrels, since the company stopped making Slow Twist, BP barrels and guns a long time ago.

 

[Ken Rummer]

FWIW

I just measured my PA Hunter twist at 65. (Estimating 1/4 turn has some error.)
My barrel is NOT marked as having a roundball twist.

 

[Finnwolf]

Bob, I had nothing but trouble with my PA Hunter for many years but that's all in the past now. The gun resides permanently in Rochester CT now where it can cause no more aggravation.

Just thought maybe there might be a logical explanation for why the gun never shot any better than 1 48 twist. From these posts it would appear that for some reason T/C only marked their hawken barrels in 66 twist? Guess I'll never know.

 

[smo]

I think i recall seeing a Renegade barrel with "1 in 66 Roundball Twist" stamped on it also. Were these barrels speacial order only ? As for the PA Hunter i'm not sure if they were made with this barrel or not

 

[jan buck]

i have a penn hunter barrel 1-66" twist that i put on my tc hawken. still working on loads right now, but my 1-48" barrel shoots just as good. i bought it from ramblin man. maybe after a few hundred shots it'll settle down and drive 'em :wink:

 

[Walks with fire]

I have two of the PA hunter rifles and they are both 1/66 twist as per the ramrod spin test; neither are marked as to twist rate. I must admit that the PA Hunter rifles of mine were a pain to get to shoot very accurate but they do outstanding now. I do think they need to shot quite a bit before they settle in.

I did fully glass bed them and did alot of load work before I settled on my best load which is 80 grains of 2f Goex; a .495 ball; and a thick 10 oz. blue jean patch material which my calipers read at .024 or so. There isn't much difference in accuracy with 100 grain charges and light 60 grainers are simply tack drivers at 50 yards. I found 2f powder to work better in mine and tested 3f a great deal; ended up with 2f as a little more accurate in my barrels. They are flinters not caps. My 31" barrel has a left hand twist and cut rifling about .010 deep; the 21" carbine has right hand twist. They shoot very accurately for me. I think the thick patch is the reason and it loads quite easily.

The old style lock had some issues which made it a bit of a pain in the arse; but, after I sent them in for a new style it is a extremely reliable lock and rifle.

Mine won't be on the trade blanket anytime soon.

 

[Finnwolf]

How'd ya fit up the PA Hunter barrel to the Hawken stock? I was gonna do the same thing when a crack showed up in my PA Hunter stock. Problem was that the transition from octagon to round occurred inside the barrel channel and looked goofy to me. :shake:

Is your barrel all octagon?

 

[Finnwolf]

Hi Walks with Fire,
Glad you got yours shootin' good. Even more glad to be rid of mine.
After 13 years, I figured that barrel was probably just about as settled in as it was going to get.

I experimented with loads between the 80 grains of 2f I used to shoot in the Hawken I once had and 95 grains of 2f. Tried .490 and .495 balls and most patching from .010 to .020 - the light stuff burned through and the heavy stuff was hard to load. Seemed most consistent with 90 grains of 2F but there was always a flyer in every 5 shots and you had to swab it after the 3rd shot or you'd never get the 4th one down the barrel.

Never did group any better than 4-5 inches at 100 yds but I did finally get it to 2" at 50 yards. Trouble is, neither of those ever satisfied me. Hell, I can shoot 2" groups at 50 yards with my S&W .357 if I lay off the coffee that day.

I remember you telling me about the 10 oz denim before and I meant to try it but at .024, I could not see how I would be able to load it considering I was having difficulty with .020 material.

All in the past now that the gun is far away and my hair is even starting to grow back a little now. At least you answered my question that T/C did not mark their PA Hunter barrels 1 in 66 even if that's what they were. Now that you mention it, I think I recall checking the twist by taping the ramrod and marking it.

So that settles it - I wasn't sold a 1 in 48 barrel - just a crappy 1 in 66 barrel.

Glad to hear someone was able to straighten one (two) of these out.

 

[jan buck]

How'd ya fit up the PA Hunter barrel to the Hawken stock? I was gonna do the same thing when a crack showed up in my PA Hunter stock. Problem was that the transition from octagon to round occurred inside the barrel channel and looked goofy to me. :shake:

Is your barrel all octagon?

finnwolf: yes mine is all octagon. i had to remove about 1" off the under rib to fit. for 115.00 new old stock it was a deal. shipping was included.

 

[Walks with fire]

Finnwolf;

I understand the frustration with this model rifle from TC and attest to the fact that mine came very close to being wrapped around a tree on many ocassions. I would not buy another that is for sure; but, it is ok for a shot or two accuracy wise. I didn't say in my post but it has to be cleaned every shot for it to shoot well and that alone is annoying.

I don't blame you a bit for getting rid of the one you had and if I could buy a drop-in GM .54 for this stock in flintlock I would do it in a heatbeat. The fact that it has left hand twist tells me it was breeched wrong to begin with.

I have found a way to get mine to shoot well enough for me to be happy with it accuracy wise for the couple shots one would take in a days hunting. It is certainly not a rifle I would take to a woods walk or extended shoot. It needs to be cleaned to the point of insanity and after 10 shots or so even with cleaning every load a flyer is coming out sooner or later. I don't get flyers for a three shot group if I scrub the bore every load.

The only reason it's still around is because I don't like any of the current production rifles and don't want to pay/build a reproduction original. I don't like the Hawken style stocks at all and the Renegade is 48 twist; so it's still around.

I do have the lock and trigger tuned up real well and I like the stocks on them; it's the barrel that is a pain in the keyster. The funny thing about this barrel is that on a spanking clean barrel the first shot will drill the center out of the bull everytime; go figure why. I don't know; but it does and it will everytime.