T/c 54cal not grouping

[Paoharcher]

Have a t/c 54 cal that I hunted with a lot years ago.mostly bowhunted after Christmas but this year decided to get the flintlock out. When shooting some with it I’m having trouble getting it to group. Using PRB, 530 hornaday
0.015 pre lubed patch and 60gr
Of goex ff. On a 10” target one shot will be at 10 o’clock and the next will be at like 4 o’clock. Cleaning barrel every three shots, just no consistency
At all. This is shooting at 50 yds off of sand bags. I want to stay with PRB
To keep it primitive. I have tried 70gr also with same result.I killed lots of deer with this gun several years ago and not sure what’s going on now?

 

[Paoharcher]

Have a t/c 54 cal that I hunted with a lot years ago.mostly bowhunted after Christmas but this year decided to get the flintlock out. When shooting some with it I’m having trouble getting it to group. Using PRB, 530 hornaday
0.015 pre lubed patch and 60gr
Of goex ff. On a 10” target one shot will be at 10 o’clock and the next will be at like 4 o’clock. Cleaning barrel every three shots, just no consistency
At all. This is shooting at 50 yds off of sand bags. I want to stay with PRB
To keep it primitive. I have tried 70gr also with same result.I killed lots of deer with this gun several years ago and not sure what’s going on now?

Anyone??

 

[Cruzatte]

How fresh is the lube on your patches? Dried out patching might be the problem.

 

[FishDFly]

Bring the target to 12 yards and start over.

Check to see that the sights are not loose.

 

[64Springer]

Is there a delay in the pan flash - powder bang chain of events?

If there is a delay, your shots will be all over the place.

 

[deermanok]

I would try different patches.
Not a big fan of prelubed.

 

[Des52]

My .54 Renagade likes 90 grs of 2F and a .18 patch lubed with mink oil. Get some dry patch material and lube it yourself is where I would start.

 

[TreeMan]

Pre lubed patches with any age on them will not stay together when loading and firing. They will simply fall apart. The lube deteriorates them. Get some good ticking patches and lube them yourself.

 

[olskool]

well, helping someone with a flintlock grouping, or really any rifle without knowing their shooting skills can be difficult. i have a neighbour friend here in SC, he was raised in the woods and has hunted all his life, he is in his 30s. he wanted to come down to my house and zero in a hunting rifle, i have a range at home. he was shooting off the bench and the target looked like it was being shot with buckshot! all over the place with no consistency. he would turn the scope one way, and then another way. then i watched as he thought the rifle was loaded and it wasn't. when he snatched the trigger! the empty gun ****** by inches as he flinched! i said Well there is the problem! i helped him and zeroed the gun in then we had a shooting lesson! now he shoots very good! so do you flinch? if so, that is the first order of business to correct. maybe you don't, but first things first. that gun should have no problems grouping at 50yds,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[waarp8nt]

Tinker with patch size, ball size and/or lube.

I was not getting groups with .54 T/C flintlock Renegade with some old pre-lube patches, upon inspection the patches were burnt through. I got some pillow ticking and used a variation Bob Roller lube using mutton tallow, bees wax and crisco (left out the bag balm).

There results at 50 yards speak for themselves. The marked shots on the board were from my buddies scoped inline, kinda nice to show him what a sidelock could do.

 

[BriR]

What have you used for bore protection after shooting?

 

[Paoharcher]

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate
It. Someone ask about delay since I updated to new style touchole and English flint there is not much of a delay. Where to buy pillow ticking?

 

[BriR]

Take it from someone who fell for T/C’s line about using bore butter to “season” and “protect” your bore, don’t use it. My Hawken barrel got extremely rusty and inaccurate after using bore butter for a few years back in the 90’s and T/C replaced it. If you haven’t done so, drop a light down the bore to check it out. You’ll know if it’s rusty. Even if it’s not, you could have a buildup of so-called “seasoning” which will wreck accuracy and should be thoroughly cleaned out.

 

[Paoharcher]

So what is best method for seasoning?

 

[bigted]

Personally I do not subscribe to the "seasoning" theory. Like a fry pan, doing so builds up what I would refer to in a rifle barrel as FOULING.

If I have a barrel that accumulates fouling quickly then I do one of two things. First I would shoot it at least 100 times to see if the "seasoning" would break out and smooth out. If this dosnt do it I would and have swabbed the bore 100 times with a scotchbright pad dunking it in oil and 100 times in and out.


Take a borelight and drop it down the barrel, study carefully the corners on the bottom of the rifling. This will ruin accuracy every time.

Nother thing that occurred to me is the length of time "away" from your flintlock. If I dont shoot my flinters often, I develope the "flinch"lock.

Just a couple observations from the peanut gallery.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Supposedly the "seasoning" idea came from back in the day when wrought Iron was used for barrels, wrought Iron has microscopic pores that do collect oils like a cast iron skillet, modern steels don't have these pores so can't be "seasoned."

Instead of seasoning, our modern barrels benefit from a good scrubbing with a scotch bright pad to smooth them out when they are new.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Well, I use Bore Butter and have not had the issues some of those who complain about it have had. As to "seasoning", I can't really say for sure that my bores are seasoned in the same way as a cast-iron skillet, but I don't have fouling issues and do not clean between shots. A typical shooting session for me is maybe three or four shots, a long one maybe ten shots and a really extended session might go twenty shots.

I clean with hot water and a few drops of Murphy's Oil Soap down in a bucket. After about three patches, each one run up and down the bore several times, I rinse the barrel with hot tap water, pick it up with a towel (cause it is HOT) and run a couple of dry patches down the bore. I blow down the bore to get the last drops out of the breach and let the barrel sit in a vertical position so any last bits of water can evaporate out of it while I work on the rest of the gun. Then I lube up the exterior of the barrel with conventional gun oil and mount it in the stock. The bore gets a patch lubed with Bore Butter wrapped around a fitted jag, not a loop, an actual jag, which get pushed up and down the bore a few times. Last step is to put an oiled patch over the nipple or in the flash pan to keep that area from rusting.

If you clean like that, you won't have any rusting problems... unless you keep the gun in the trunk of your car all the time.

I'm more inclined to believe that you have developed a flinch shooting the flintlock than that there is any problem with the gun, but it is certainly possible. With a marginally longer hang-time, a flinch is much more noticeable with a flintlock than a caplock. Just a little powder in the pan, you don't need to fill it up and there are loads of tricks that flintlock shooters regularly use... you'll probably see a few here. Look for cracks in the stock, check the fit of your wedge pin, review your shooting and cleaning procedures and have someone else who is an experienced flintlock shooter fire the gun. If both of you can't get it to group, you have isolated the problem as something about the gun, if you get bad groups and the other shooter gets good groups, then the problem is you and not the gun. That would be the best result, because it is curable... you just need to hit the range and shoot more! That's always a good thing.

 

[BriR]

When I found that my barrel had rusted after using bore butter for a few years I called T/C and spoke to a technician about the issue. He told me T/C knew it was basically garbage for protecting the bore, but they made a lot of money selling the stuff as a do-all and it was cheaper to replace barrels of those that had issues than it was to lose sales on the bore butter by ending the “protectant” claim.

Since then I’ve only used a good grade gun oil, like FP-10, and have never had any issues with rust. My cleaning procedure never changed, either. Let me add that I have a CVA Mountain Rifle that I was shooting alternately with the Hawken. I protected the bore in the CVA with only gun oil and never had a single issue with rust.

 

[Ames]

I keep it simple. Barricade after cleaning. With the guns still hanging on the wall I run a borescope once a month to look for problems developing.
Rare that I find any.

 

[oldwood]

Far as I see , "seasoning" is not for modern steel barrels. For 50+ yrs. , have liked bore butter type lubes , like mutton tallow , Dixie Old Zip patch lube is where I started. The secret to any grease lube , is to apply it to patches , then remove as much of the grease as is possible w/ a finger on a solid surface. I pre-lube my patches as needed , before I go out to shoot. Old rifles have "patch boxes ", and "grease holes" . These things were put there to store greased patches.. Try spitting in a grease hole , and see if the spit patches stay in the hole , where they were put. Not so well. What did ya drill the hole in the side of the stock , unless ya are goin' ta use it for it's intended purpose. Patch boxes , ......of all the original metal , and sliding wood patch boxes I have examined , most have signs of grease , still embedded in the recesses. Early on in the 1970's , I tried the spit patch method , and found I didn't have enough spit to do the job. Out of laziness ,I stuck with Dixie Gun Works , Old Zip mutton fat lube. When the new greases came into use , I started to use them in competition. I found them to be so similar , I have no favorite. Rendered bear fat is the ultimate lube , but try to buy that at Wally World..........oldwood